<html><head><base href="x-msg://2509/"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF" face="'Gill Sans'"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;">We've been over this before. The run-time libraries (including sysutils) can be assumed to bootstrap from a *new* compiler, which has itself been compiled against the *old* libraries. Then, you can build a *new new* compiler linked against the *new* libraries. Let's not make the libraries have braindead code when it is not necessary. They should be kept clean going forward!</span></font></div></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div></span></span>
</div>
<br><div><div>On 10 Feb 2010, at 12:00, Jay K wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class="hmmessage" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Verdana; ">sysutils has somewhat of a need to know if it is using user threads.<br>We've been over this multiple times through the years.<br>Never seems to be 100% resolved, but a solid 99%.<br> <br> <br>It runs a process and waits.<br>Historically in sysutils and m3core this was sleep/wait(nohang) in a loop.<br>It was identified by people as a major performance problem.<br> Because the process exits fairly quickly but you have to wait for the sleep to finish.<br> Sleep being Modula-3 Thread.Sleep I guess -- call into the user thread scheduler.<br>By and by, most platforms got kernel threads. Changing it to be wait(hang)<br>became good, faster, no deadlock. But openbsd comes along with lame<br>pthreads, usermode at that, so we use user threads, and wait(hang)<br>could deadlock..<br> <br> <br>There is an interface in m3core to handle this stuff, but if<br>you bootstrap from an old build, it isn't there.<br> <br> <br>Mitigating factor as I understand that we don't use threads agressively,<br>so the deadlock isn't actually likely.<br>"we" meaning code that launches processes.<br> <br> <br>I understand that ideally you don't care if you are using userthreads or kernelthreads.<br>But the abstraction historically was incomplete.<br> <br> <br> - Jay<br><br> <br>> From:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:hosking@cs.purdue.edu">hosking@cs.purdue.edu</a><br>> Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2010 10:16:24 -0500<br>> To:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:jkrell@elego.de">jkrell@elego.de</a><br>> CC:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:m3commit@elegosoft.com">m3commit@elegosoft.com</a><br>> Subject: Re: [M3commit] CVS Update: cm3<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> Huh? Cryptic comment.<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> On 10 Feb 2010, at 12:20, Jay Krell wrote:<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > CVSROOT: /usr/cvs<br>> > Changes by: jkrell@birch. 10/02/10 12:20:55<br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > Modified files:<br>> > cm3/m3-libs/sysutils/src/POSIX/: m3makefile<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> ><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>> > Log message:<br>> > I had this change around: expose if we are using user threads, i.e. if we are OpenBSD<br>><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br></div></span></blockquote></div><br></body></html>