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Understood. It should be ok now (well, "better" at least).<BR>
<BR>
> I just compile and ship the packages in the right order.<BR>
<BR>
Most folks claim an inability to do that actually.<BR>
<BR>
- Jay<BR><BR><BR>
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From: hosking@cs.purdue.edu<BR>To: jay.krell@cornell.edu<BR>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:52:34 +1100<BR>CC: m3devel@elegosoft.com<BR>Subject: Re: [M3devel] declaring a type's existance but not enough to instantiate it?<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV>There are some of us around who don't use your scripts and expect to be able to build any package using cm3 out of the box. I don't use scripts for my bootstrapping -- I just compile and ship the packages in the right order.</DIV>
<DIV></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 12 Jan 2009, at 18:32, Jay wrote:</DIV><BR class=EC_Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN class=EC_Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate">
<DIV class=EC_hmmessage style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I didn't slow it back down yet, but I changed to a relative path instead of ROOT.<BR>All the scripts define ROOT and my config files ferry environment variable CM3_ROOT to ROOT.<BR>(ROOT is too generic for an environment variable.)<BR><BR>oh -- m3core or sysytils?<BR>sysutils needed it. I don't see what m3core does.<BR> <BR> - Jay<BR><BR><BR>
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<BR>From:<SPAN class=EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:jay.krell@cornell.edu">jay.krell@cornell.edu</A><BR>To:<SPAN class=EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:hosking@cs.purdue.edu">hosking@cs.purdue.edu</A><BR>CC:<SPAN class=EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</A><BR>Subject: RE: [M3devel] declaring a type's existance but not enough to instantiate it?<BR>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 07:27:09 +0000<BR><BR>Huh..that's what I was saying about the way m3overrides work -- the directory structure IS duplicated /everywhere/.. I don't know what choice there is, if quake code is to be shared across packages.<BR> <BR>m3tests does the same sort of thing, also to me.<BR> <BR>Ok, hold, I'll slow sysutils back down.<BR> <BR> - Jay<BR><BR><BR><BR>
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<BR><BR>From:<SPAN class=EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:hosking@cs.purdue.edu">hosking@cs.purdue.edu</A><BR>To:<SPAN class=EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:jay.krell@cornell.edu">jay.krell@cornell.edu</A><BR>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:24:43 +1100<BR>CC:<SPAN class=EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</A><BR>Subject: Re: [M3devel] declaring a type's existance but not enough to instantiate it?<BR><BR>Jay,<BR><BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>What the hell is the ROOT variable supposed to do now. I can't build m3core with a compiler that doesn't define ROOT. And why does the m3makefile that includes Uwaitpid.quake expect a hardwired cm3 directory hierarchy. Surely, I should be able to build m3core as a separate package, regardless of the structure in which it appears. You are doing damage to the package structures here too, by hardwiring these paths into the m3makefile.</DIV>
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<DIV>-- Tony</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>On 12 Jan 2009, at 17:58, Jay wrote:</DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV class=EC_EC_EC_hmmessage style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">We have conflicting goals.<BR> <BR>Keeping things as fast as possible and with as little C as possible, vs. keeping things more portable, more easily ported, more obviously correct.<BR> <BR>I want to drastically reduce the header cloning, or, the work of porting.<BR> It is already reduced, but I want to keep going.<BR> I think having to make any changes at all in m3-libs/m3core/src/unix can be removed, other than adding the platform to the list of platforms that uses the "portable" stuff.<BR>Porting would devolve to:<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> update the lists of platforms -- including some in m3makefiles<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> update Target.m3<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> clone/edit Csetjmp.i3<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> add the GNU platform to m3cc/src/makefile<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> <BR>and maybe nothing else.<BR> <BR>It is likely even that the IR is now portable, for "Posix" systems.<BR>Pick word size, pick endian, generate 4 versions of IR, pick the right one for your platform.<BR>Except for the OSConfigPosix that sometimes returns the platform name and cm3's defining "HOST".<BR> <BR>A variable isn't great, but it is faster and more source compatible than a function call, at least.<BR>And the C variable really will generally be read only. Writes to it should fault.<BR> <BR> > In this particular case, you are wanting to use a Modula-3 parameter<BR> > passing mechanism on something that is not declared in Modula-3.<BR> <BR>Isn't this just a variation on what is done all the time? -- having Modula-3 call C and sometimes vice versa?<BR>C code calls Modula-3 signal handlers, with data created in the C code. The Modula-3 code can then pass them on. I don't see the line really.<BR> <BR> - Jay<BR><BR><BR>
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<BR>From:<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:hosking@cs.purdue.edu">hosking@cs.purdue.edu</A><BR>To:<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:jay.krell@cornell.edu">jay.krell@cornell.edu</A><BR>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:32:15 +1100<BR>CC:<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</A><BR>Subject: Re: [M3devel] declaring a type's existance but not enough to instantiate it?<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate">
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<DIV>Jay, I really think you are bending over backwards too far just to be able to shoe-horn things into C. I *like* having the transpar of C header files expressed in Modula-3, *particularly* for system calls, where you might even be trying to build on a system that does not have the C header files installed, even though the libraries exist and can be linked to. Fundamentally, I think anytime the Modula-3 code is made less transparent you should think hard about what you are doing. The same with the change of constants to variables.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I am getting very nervous that the changes you are making are destroying the clarity of the Modula-3 run-time code.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>In this particular case, you are wanting to use a Modula-3 parameter passing mechanism on something that is not declared in Modula-3. Seems kind of dubious to me. Also, I really don't like the idea of accessing external variables in C.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>-- Tony</DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 12 Jan 2009, at 11:55, Jay wrote:</DIV><BR class=EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate">
<DIV class=EC_EC_EC_EC_hmmessage style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">I considered ADDRESS.<BR>However I think it still doesn't satisfy.<BR> <BR>I want to be able to do this:<BR> <BR>TYPE Foo_t = something;<BR><* EXTERNAL *> VAR Foo1, Foo2:Foo_t;<BR><* EXTERNAL *> PROCEDURE UseFoo(READONLY (* or VAR *) foo:Foo_t);<BR> <BR>(* Modula-3, not external *)<BR>PROCEDURE x()=<BR>BEGIN<BR> UseFoo(Foo1);<BR> UseFoo(Foo2);<BR>END x;<BR> <BR>AND I want any use of:<BR>VAR Foo3:Foo3_t; (* Modula-3, not external *)<BR><BR>to error. This is sem_t and sigset_t in particular.<BR> <BR>Possibly renaming is the thing.<BR>They used to be declared in Modula-3, system-dependently, but<BR>I moved them to portable C.<BR> <BR>I could remove the types entirely and change UseFoo to take an address,<BR>and declare mask and ackSem to be integers or I guess.<BR><*EXTERNAL> VAR ackSem : RECORD END;<BR> <BR>That would satisfy but I thought it might be nicer to still provide the named<BR>types to refer to the external variables.<BR> <BR> - Jay<BR><BR>
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<BR>From:<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:hosking@cs.purdue.edu">hosking@cs.purdue.edu</A><BR>To:<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:jay.krell@cornell.edu">jay.krell@cornell.edu</A><BR>Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 11:13:00 +1100<BR>CC:<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</A><BR>Subject: Re: [M3devel] declaring a type's existance but not enough to instantiate it?<BR><BR>What's wrong with using ADDRESS for references to opaque values? If sigset_t is never instantiated in Modula-3, then why do you need it declared there?<BR>
<DIV><BR>
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<DIV>
<DIV>On 12 Jan 2009, at 01:44, Jay wrote:</DIV><BR class=EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-interchange-newline>
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<DIV class=EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_hmmessage style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana">Is there a way in Modula-3 to declare that a type exists, and there are <*external*> instances of it, without "fully" declaring it, so that no Modula-3 can instantiate it?<BR> <BR>I have done this for sigset_t and sem_t, but they could erroneously be instantiated by Modula-3 and I'd like to remove that ability to mess up so easily.<BR> <BR>(* This type is not declared correctly. It is only instantiated in C code. *)<BR> sigset_t = RECORD END;<BR><BR>(* This type is not declared correctly. It is only instantiated in C code. *)<BR> sem_t = RECORD END;<BR><BR>In C I believe you can do this, like:<BR> typedef struct foo foo_t; <SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> extern foo_t foo; <SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> <BR> void UseFoo(foo_t*);<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> foo_t* GetFoo(void);<SPAN class=EC_EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR> <BR>Thanks,<BR> - Jay<BR><BR><BR><BR></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></SPAN><BR class=EC_EC_EC_EC_Apple-interchange-newline></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></SPAN><BR class=EC_EC_EC_Apple-interchange-newline></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></SPAN><BR class=EC_Apple-interchange-newline></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></body>
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