
<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div apple-content-edited="true"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: medium;"><font class="Apple-style-span" color="#0000FF" face="'Gill Sans'">Agreed, cross-compilation only needed for cm3 itself.  PM3 used to distribute the derived .s files for each platform and installation required building cm3 from those.  That way there was no need to deliver an executable cm3.  It was all source.</font></span></div></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></div></span></div></span> </div><br><div><div>On 31 Jul 2009, at 12:35, Jay K wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><div><br>I actually think cross compilation support might have been very good in the first place. :)<br>In either case, yes, cross compilation support is good and easy now, if it wasn't earlier.<br>I only ever cross compile cm3 itself though, not the entire system.<br>Mainly what I did is some automation in pylib.py, which isn't all it should be, but again, enough for cm3.<br> It's arguably not much more than your scripts.<br><br><br>Oh, well, I also changed cm3.cfg to probe around for a reasonable cm3cg, so I could stop constantly overwriting the One /cm3/bin/cm3cg, but just use CVSROOT/m3-sys/m3cc/host-target/cm3cg.<br>Really we should ship to /cm3/bin/host/target/cm3cg probably.<br><br><br>Cross compiling the entire system will be useful for distribution purposes, but not in this release probably.<br>It will enable us to claim to build a distribution for some target, without actually having the target available..which is a little bit dishonest, granted, you couldn't have run the tests.<br><br><br>However it also allows cross building the entire system for slow targets, that you do have and will run the tests on, e.g. iphone, mips network router, my SGI machine, etc.<br><br><br>If you booted from other distributions...these package groups refer to something in them??<br><br><br> - Jay<br><br>----------------------------------------<br><blockquote type="cite">Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:27:47 +0200<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:wagner@elegosoft.com">wagner@elegosoft.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [M3devel] package groups question<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I meant getting the first instance of cm3 5.1 run on a certain platform.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">And there was of course a first platform. We used the SRC compiler,<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">the cm3 4.1 from Critical Mass, and the PM3 compiler on different<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">platforms. Later we used cross-compilation almost exclusively.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">I assume that cross-compilation support has improved dramatically<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">with all your changes.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Olaf<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Quoting Jay K :<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">What does it mean to boot the compiler?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I build the compiler from nothing but the compiler itself,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and config files, and C compiler and linker, cvs<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">to get all the source.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">That's not nothing, but it about the smallest start you can have,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">unless you rewrite the compiler in C, then you can start without<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the Modula-3 compiler. But at certain points in time this<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">would not work, due to m3core and/or libm3 problems.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">It does work today.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Is that booting?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">In future I'd like to dynamically link cm3, so I'd start with<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">cm3, libm3.so, libm3core.so, etc. -- just cm3 and its "static dynamic"<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">dependencies. Many other systems do dynamically link to this extent<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and we can to.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I'm not just being obnoxious.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Really, what does it mean?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Should we just ship std and that's it?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And even drop the name from it?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">cm3-PPC_LINUX-5.8.2.tar.gz ?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(No need to say "POSIX", it is redundant).<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Just one download per platform?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Not a big matrix of packages to test?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Or do we look too fat in that packaging? :)<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Will too much stuff confuse users?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Or mitigate the bulk with a little documentation/tutorial?<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Something like this:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There are many libraries and packages.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">You do not need to worry about them.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Here is hello world for a command line program:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And for a gui program:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And a minimal sample interoperating with C:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">And a minimal sample using Modula-3's RPC called "network objects":<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">...<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">CM3 4.1 had some like this that were nice, presumably we have them.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">- Jay<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">----------------------------------------<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:20:48 -0400<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">From: <a href="mailto:hendrik@topoi.pooq.com">hendrik@topoi.pooq.com</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">To: <a href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Subject: Re: [M3devel] package groups question<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:13:58AM -0400, <a href="mailto:hendrik@topoi.pooq.com">hendrik@topoi.pooq.com</a> wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 04:05:46PM +0200, Olaf Wagner wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Quoting Tony Hosking :<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I don't care if future versions are not compilable with old cm3. But,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">vice versa, old versions should always be compilable with new cm3.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">My gut feelings run along the lines of what Randy has said. I do<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">think that the average user should accept std as the install, while<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">min is for power-users who know what they are doing. Does that jive<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">with other people's expectations?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Sorry, I only now caught up with _some_ of the mails on the m3devel<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">list. Too much traffic for me to digest.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I gather there's been a long discussion that `min' is not really<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">useful as it is not enough to build the system. When we started<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">the cm3 5 business many years ago with lots of uncompilable sources<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">from Farshad Nayeri, we invented the following sets of packages:<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">all - obvious meaning. most packages did not compile at all.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">std - the set of packages shipped as compilable and usable with<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">every new release<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">core - a useful but small set of packages including everything to<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">bootstrap the compiler<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">boot - the minimal set to bootstrap the compiler<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">min - the minimal set useful for anyone (not wanting to compiler cm3)<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">As of today, std = all, and boot isn't used any more as far as a I see.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Is that becaouse no one ever boots the compiler any more? Or because<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">there are better ways to do it?<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-- hendrik<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I guess I should mention that ebian is perfectly happy if one source<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">parckage (possibly the entire working cm3 system) generates multiple<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">binary packages.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">-- hendrik<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb�ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><a href="http://www.elegosoft.com">http://www.elegosoft.com</a> | Gesch�ftsf�hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br></body></html>