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Given that files are in fact larger than 4GB, why should we impose such a limit?<BR>
Doesn't it make for a pretty lame system?<BR>
<BR>
Pretty much no existing 32bit C system for many years now any such limit and<BR>
C started going past these limits around 15 years ago.<BR>
<BR>
It turns out changes I sent were pretty nearly done. I can now build all of "std"<BR>
with LONGINT for file sizes. It's not just Rd/Wr, though that is most of it, it is also "File".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- Jay<BR><BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
Subject: Re: [M3devel] what to do about file sizes being 32bits?<BR>From: hosking@cs.purdue.edu<BR>Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:17:40 -0500<BR>CC: jay.krell@cornell.edu; m3devel@elegosoft.com<BR>To: hosking@cs.purdue.edu<BR><BR>
<DIV>I guess what I am really saying is that it does not seem unreasonable to me that Modula-3 (as a language) should be able to restrict the Rd.T and Wr.T instances to have a length that is always expressible as INTEGER. That was the point of my question about eliminating LONGINT. With the C interfaces abstracted, LONGINT would no longer be necessary.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<DIV>
<DIV>On 7 Jan 2010, at 14:07, Tony Hosking wrote:</DIV><BR class=ecxApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
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<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff face="'Gill Sans'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=ecxApple-style-span>Jay,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff face="'Gill Sans'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=ecxApple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=ecxApple-style-span><FONT class=ecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff face="'Gill Sans'">I am *very* concerned that these changes are damaging the clarity of the language and its libraries in bad ways. What is so unreasonable about having the Modula-3 library interfaces place restrictions that continue to impose INTEGER file sizes. Just because the underlying OS allows files larger than that, if a program creates and manipulates files through the standard interfaces then they cannot ever see file sizes bigger than INTEGER. The interfaces support failure of Put operations on Wr.T that permit us to fail when exceeding the restricted file size. Please do not make these changes in the mainline trunk until further discussion. If you want to propose a set of changes I strongly suggest that you place them in a branch for evaluation by others!</FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=ecxwebkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>-- Tony</DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 7 Jan 2010, at 12:26, Jay K wrote:</DIV><BR class=ecxApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxApple-style-span>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" class=ecxhmmessage>> Not in the current release<BR><BR>Agreed.<BR><BR><BR>I think I'll have this done in the next few days, with the<BR>major caveat that it does break a lot of code. I'll fix the cm3 tree.<BR><BR><BR>The breakage is roughly:<BR><BR><BR>rd/wr users:<BR>before:<BR> a := Rd.Length(b);<BR> c := Rd.Index(b);<BR> Rd.Seek(b, d);<BR><BR><BR>after:<BR> a := ORD(Rd.Length(b));<BR> c := ORD(Rd.Index(b));<BR> Rd.Seek(b, VAL(d, LONGINT));<BR><BR><BR>Though I think the last line should just work without change.<BR><BR><BR>rd/wr implementers:<BR> more substantial changes, but still similar, lots of ORD/VAL, and "L".<BR><BR><BR>One more compatible alternative might be to add LengthL, IndexL, SeekL?<BR>Maybe only break rd/wr implementers but not users?<BR><BR><BR>The reason I don't like that though is that it is even more of a no-op.<BR>Nobody will switch to the new functions.<BR>Similar to how "today" everybody will just ORD/VAL over the difference.<BR><BR><BR>To be clear though, the time for this change was 10 or 20 years ago.<BR>Now, 32bit systems are going away and with them this problem.<BR>(Amazingly, some 64bit systems still have 32bit time_t, like I think OpenBSD..)<BR><BR><BR> - Jay<BR><BR><BR>> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:52:10 +0100<BR>> From:<SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:wagner@elegosoft.com">wagner@elegosoft.com</A><BR>> To:<SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</A><BR>> Subject: Re: [M3devel] what to do about file sizes being 32bits?<BR>><SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Quoting<SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:hendrik@topoi.pooq.com">hendrik@topoi.pooq.com</A>:<BR>><SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > On Thu, Jan 07, 2010 at 06:59:31AM +0000, Jay K wrote:<BR>> >><BR>> >> File.i3:<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> Status = RECORD<BR>> >> type: Type;<BR>> >> modificationTime: Time.T;<BR>> >> size: CARDINAL (* oops... *)<BR>> >> END;<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> What to do?<BR>> >> [0.. higher than 7FFFFFFF] doesn't "just work".<BR>> >> higher than 7FFFFFFFF is not legal on 32bit, unless you put "L"<SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> >> on the end,<BR>> >> which presumably has some relationship to turning it into a<SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> >> LONGINT, which<BR>> >> causes users to fail to compile<BR>> ><BR>> > In any case, is the proper type for file offsets [0..7fffffffffffffff]<BR>> > or [0..ffffffffffffffff]? I suspect the latter. It might take some<BR>> > effort to make that legal in Modula 3.<BR>><SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Well, I don't think that should be any practical problem right now,<BR>> shouldn't it? But 32 bit offsets have been overcome for years even<BR>> on 32 bit systems, so I definitely think we should keep the LONGINT<BR>> type and even try to incompatibly change the internal file length<BR>> type (with due care and consideration of course).<BR>><SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> And please not for the still unfinished release, but for the next<BR>> one.<BR>><SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Olaf<BR>> --<SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH<BR>> Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Gebäude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany<BR>> phone: <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_2 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +493023458696 context="+49 30 23 45 86 96" type=".flex" skypeid="2" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_2 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="2" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="0"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f2 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s2 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text2 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText2 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 30 23 45 86 96 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r2 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_2 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 30 23 45 86 96</SKYPE:SPAN> mobile: <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_3 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +491772345869 context="+49 177 2345 869" type=".flex" skypeid="3" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_3 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="3" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="1"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f3 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s3 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text3 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText3 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 177 2345 869 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r3 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_3 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 177 2345 869</SKYPE:SPAN> fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95<BR>><SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.elegosoft.com/">http://www.elegosoft.com</A><SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN>| Geschäftsführer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin<BR>> Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194<BR>><SPAN class=ecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> </body>
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