<html>
<head>
<style><!--
.hmmessage P
{
margin:0px;
padding:0px
}
body.hmmessage
{
font-size: 10pt;
font-family:Verdana
}
--></style>
</head>
<body class='hmmessage'>
To repeat myself, basically every system supports 64bit file sizes and they are easy to use from C.<BR>
In my opinion, a "systems" language is something you can do "anything" in.<BR>
Now, granted, the language isn't the issue here.<BR>
But conflation of libraries and languages is common and not entirely invalid.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- Jay<BR><BR><BR> <BR>
<HR id=stopSpelling>
From: jay.krell@cornell.edu<BR>To: hosking@cs.purdue.edu<BR>CC: m3devel@elegosoft.com<BR>Subject: RE: [M3devel] what to do about file sizes being 32bits?<BR>Date: Fri, 8 Jan 2010 01:07:23 +0000<BR><BR>
<STYLE>
.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P
{padding:0px;}
.ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage
{font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;}
</STYLE>
> As you are already aware, some systems have only 32-bit addressable files.<BR> <BR>Really?!<BR>I don't think any system that we currently support or almost any that we would forseably lacks ability to use files larger than 4G.<BR>4G has not been a large file size for quite a long time now.<BR>FreeBSD, NetBSD, NT, Linux, Solaris, AIX, Irix, VMS, HP-UX. 64bit file sizes in 32bit code.<BR>Maybe not MS-DOS, maybe not Win9x, but maybe esp. via remote file systems.<BR> <BR> <BR> > If we go the route you suggest then LONGINT will escape from a few isolated uses into the rest of the system.<BR> <BR> <BR>I can build "std" now. It does escape pretty far, but it is actually fairly contained.<BR>It would help a little of an INTEGER could be assigned to a LONGINT.<BR>Then the "porting" work for Rd/Wr users is just to add ORD on Index/Length calls.<BR>Currently they also need VAL(foo, LONGINT) also for Seek calls, which could be eliminated if..<BR> <BR> > You are conflating OS "files" with Modula-3 Rd/Wr.T. <BR> <BR>Isn't that pretty natural?<BR>Aren't "file" one of the main things used with Rd/Wr?<BR>Besides that, if you consider "streams", going beyond 4G seems even more limiting.<BR>You know, I didn't change Read/Write/Get/whatever to use LONGINT. They require an in-memory buffer and therefore must use INTEGER or CARDINAL.<BR> <BR>I agree that dealing with such large files can be difficult, depending on the algorithms.<BR>But the "base" of the system shouldn't remove the ability for higher parts to do so.<BR> <BR> <BR>And resorting to C seems unnecessary.<BR>The operating system interfaces are essentially identical on Posix, as long you #define whatever.<BR>They vary at the ABI level for compatibility.<BR> <BR> <BR>Should I create a branch, or can we review the diffs and decide?<BR> <BR> <BR> - Jay<BR><BR><BR> <BR>
<HR id=ecxstopSpelling>
From: hosking@cs.purdue.edu<BR>Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:33:41 -0500<BR>To: jay.krell@cornell.edu<BR>CC: m3devel@elegosoft.com<BR>Subject: Re: [M3devel] what to do about file sizes being 32bits?<BR><BR>
<DIV>What do you mean by "files"? You are conflating OS "files" with Modula-3 Rd/Wr.T. They are not necessarily the same. Modula-3 is designed to be OS-independent. As you are already aware, some systems have only 32-bit addressable files.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>If we go the route you suggest then LONGINT will escape from a few isolated uses into the rest of the system. This seems overkill. With Rd/Wr.Length typed as INTEGER then on 64-bit systems you will have 64-bit addressable files. Elsewhere, 32-bit.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I am really starting to think the addition of LONGINT was a big mistake.</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=ecxecxApple-style-span><FONT class=ecxecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff face="'Gill Sans'"><BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 7 Jan 2010, at 15:31, Jay K wrote:</DIV><BR class=ecxecxApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxApple-style-span>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" class=ecxecxhmmessage>Given that files are in fact larger than 4GB, why should we impose such a limit?<BR>Doesn't it make for a pretty lame system?<BR> <BR>Pretty much no existing 32bit C system for many years now any such limit and<BR>C started going past these limits around 15 years ago.<BR> <BR>It turns out changes I sent were pretty nearly done. I can now build all of "std"<BR>with LONGINT for file sizes. It's not just Rd/Wr, though that is most of it, it is also "File".<BR> <BR> <BR> - Jay<BR><BR> <BR>
<HR id=ecxecxstopSpelling>
Subject: Re: [M3devel] what to do about file sizes being 32bits?<BR>From:<SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:hosking@cs.purdue.edu">hosking@cs.purdue.edu</A><BR>Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:17:40 -0500<BR>CC:<SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:jay.krell@cornell.edu">jay.krell@cornell.edu</A>;<SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</A><BR>To:<SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:hosking@cs.purdue.edu">hosking@cs.purdue.edu</A><BR><BR>
<DIV>I guess what I am really saying is that it does not seem unreasonable to me that Modula-3 (as a language) should be able to restrict the Rd.T and Wr.T instances to have a length that is always expressible as INTEGER. That was the point of my question about eliminating LONGINT. With the C interfaces abstracted, LONGINT would no longer be necessary.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span face="Gill Sans"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>Antony Hosking</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span face="Gill Sans"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span> | </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>Associate Professor</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span> | Computer Science | Purdue University</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span face=GillSans-Light><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: GillSans-Light" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>305 N. University Street | West Lafayette | IN 47907 | USA</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff face="Gill Sans"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>Office</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span face=GillSans-Light><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: GillSans-Light" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: GillSans-Light" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span> <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = SKYPE /><SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_0 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +17654946001 context="+1 765 494 6001" type=".flex" rtl="1" skypeid="0" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r0 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text0 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText0 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +1 765 494 6001 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s0 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_0 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="0" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="0"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f0 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_0 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+1 765 494 6001</SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_1 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +17654946001 context="+1 765 494 6001" type=".flex" skypeid="1" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_1 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="1" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="0"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f1 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s1 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text1 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText1 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +1 765 494 6001 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r1 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_1 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+1 765 494 6001</SKYPE:SPAN> <SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_2 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +17654946001 context="+1 765 494 6001" type=".flex" skypeid="2" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_2 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="2" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="0"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f2 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s2 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text2 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText2 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +1 765 494 6001 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r2 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_2 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+1 765 494 6001</SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_3 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +17654946001 context="+1 765 494 6001" type=".flex" skypeid="3" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_3 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="3" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="0"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f3 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s3 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text3 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText3 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +1 765 494 6001 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r3 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_3 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+1 765 494 6001</SKYPE:SPAN> <SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN>|<SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff face="Gill Sans"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Gill Sans'; COLOR: rgb(0,0,255)" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>Mobile</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span face=GillSans-Light><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: GillSans-Light" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: GillSans-Light" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_4 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +17654275484 context="+1 765 427 5484" type=".flex" skypeid="4" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_4 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="4" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="1"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f4 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s4 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text4 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText4 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +1 765 427 5484 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r4 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_4 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+1 765 427 5484</SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_5 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +17654275484 context="+1 765 427 5484" type=".flex" skypeid="5" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_5 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="5" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="1"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f5 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s5 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text5 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText5 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +1 765 427 5484 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r5 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_5 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+1 765 427 5484</SKYPE:SPAN> <SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_6 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +17654275484 context="+1 765 427 5484" type=".flex" skypeid="6" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_6 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="6" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="1"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f6 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s6 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text6 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText6 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +1 765 427 5484 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r6 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_6 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+1 765 427 5484</SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_7 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in United States of America with Skype: +17654275484 context="+1 765 427 5484" type=".flex" skypeid="7" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_7 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="7" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="1"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/US.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f7 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s7 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text7 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText7 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +1 765 427 5484 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r7 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_7 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+1 765 427 5484</SKYPE:SPAN> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span face=GillSans-Light><BR class=ecxecxecxkhtml-block-placeholder></FONT></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><BR class=ecxecxecxApple-interchange-newline></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN><BR class=ecxecxecxApple-interchange-newline></DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 7 Jan 2010, at 14:07, Tony Hosking wrote:</DIV><BR class=ecxecxecxApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word">
<DIV><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>
<DIV style="WORD-WRAP: break-word"><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff face="'Gill Sans'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>Jay,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff face="'Gill Sans'"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><BR></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: medium" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span><FONT class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span color=#0000ff face="'Gill Sans'">I am *very* concerned that these changes are damaging the clarity of the language and its libraries in bad ways. What is so unreasonable about having the Modula-3 library interfaces place restrictions that continue to impose INTEGER file sizes. Just because the underlying OS allows files larger than that, if a program creates and manipulates files through the standard interfaces then they cannot ever see file sizes bigger than INTEGER. The interfaces support failure of Put operations on Wr.T that permit us to fail when exceeding the restricted file size. Please do not make these changes in the mainline trunk until further discussion. If you want to propose a set of changes I strongly suggest that you place them in a branch for evaluation by others!</FONT></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><BR class=ecxecxecxwebkit-block-placeholder></DIV>
<DIV>-- Tony</DIV><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV>On 7 Jan 2010, at 12:26, Jay K wrote:</DIV><BR class=ecxecxecxApple-interchange-newline>
<BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN style="TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: medium Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px" class=ecxecxecxApple-style-span>
<DIV style="FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt" class=ecxecxecxhmmessage>> Not in the current release<BR><BR>Agreed.<BR><BR><BR>I think I'll have this done in the next few days, with the<BR>major caveat that it does break a lot of code. I'll fix the cm3 tree.<BR><BR><BR>The breakage is roughly:<BR><BR><BR>rd/wr users:<BR>before:<BR> a := Rd.Length(b);<BR> c := Rd.Index(b);<BR> Rd.Seek(b, d);<BR><BR><BR>after:<BR> a := ORD(Rd.Length(b));<BR> c := ORD(Rd.Index(b));<BR> Rd.Seek(b, VAL(d, LONGINT));<BR><BR><BR>Though I think the last line should just work without change.<BR><BR><BR>rd/wr implementers:<BR> more substantial changes, but still similar, lots of ORD/VAL, and "L".<BR><BR><BR>One more compatible alternative might be to add LengthL, IndexL, SeekL?<BR>Maybe only break rd/wr implementers but not users?<BR><BR><BR>The reason I don't like that though is that it is even more of a no-op.<BR>Nobody will switch to the new functions.<BR>Similar to how "today" everybody will just ORD/VAL over the difference.<BR><BR><BR>To be clear though, the time for this change was 10 or 20 years ago.<BR>Now, 32bit systems are going away and with them this problem.<BR>(Amazingly, some 64bit systems still have 32bit time_t, like I think OpenBSD..)<BR><BR><BR> - Jay<BR><BR><BR>> Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 14:52:10 +0100<BR>> From:<SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:wagner@elegosoft.com">wagner@elegosoft.com</A><BR>> To:<SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</A><BR>> Subject: Re: [M3devel] what to do about file sizes being 32bits?<BR>><SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Quoting<SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="mailto:hendrik@topoi.pooq.com">hendrik@topoi.pooq.com</A>:<BR>><SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> > On Thu, Jan 07, 2010 at 06:59:31AM +0000, Jay K wrote:<BR>> >><BR>> >> File.i3:<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> Status = RECORD<BR>> >> type: Type;<BR>> >> modificationTime: Time.T;<BR>> >> size: CARDINAL (* oops... *)<BR>> >> END;<BR>> >><BR>> >><BR>> >> What to do?<BR>> >> [0.. higher than 7FFFFFFF] doesn't "just work".<BR>> >> higher than 7FFFFFFFF is not legal on 32bit, unless you put "L"<SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> >> on the end,<BR>> >> which presumably has some relationship to turning it into a<SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> >> LONGINT, which<BR>> >> causes users to fail to compile<BR>> ><BR>> > In any case, is the proper type for file offsets [0..7fffffffffffffff]<BR>> > or [0..ffffffffffffffff]? I suspect the latter. It might take some<BR>> > effort to make that legal in Modula 3.<BR>><SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Well, I don't think that should be any practical problem right now,<BR>> shouldn't it? But 32 bit offsets have been overcome for years even<BR>> on 32 bit systems, so I definitely think we should keep the LONGINT<BR>> type and even try to incompatibly change the internal file length<BR>> type (with due care and consideration of course).<BR>><SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> And please not for the still unfinished release, but for the next<BR>> one.<BR>><SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Olaf<BR>> --<SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR>> Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH<BR>> Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Gebäude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany<BR>> phone:<SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_8 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +493023458696 context="+49 30 23 45 86 96" type=".flex" skypeid="8" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_8 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="8" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="0"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f8 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s8 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text8 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText8 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 30 23 45 86 96 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r8 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_8 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 30 23 45 86 96</SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_9 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +493023458696 context="+49 30 23 45 86 96" type=".flex" skypeid="9" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_9 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="9" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="0"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f9 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s9 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text9 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText9 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 30 23 45 86 96 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r9 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_9 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 30 23 45 86 96</SKYPE:SPAN> <SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_10 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +493023458696 context="+49 30 23 45 86 96" type=".flex" skypeid="10" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_10 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="10" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="0"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f10 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s10 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text10 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText10 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 30 23 45 86 96 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r10 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_10 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 30 23 45 86 96</SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_11 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +493023458696 context="+49 30 23 45 86 96" type=".flex" skypeid="11" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_11 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="11" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="0"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f11 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s11 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text11 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText11 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 30 23 45 86 96 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r11 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_11 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 30 23 45 86 96</SKYPE:SPAN> <SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN>mobile:<SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_12 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +491772345869 context="+49 177 2345 869" type=".flex" skypeid="12" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_12 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="12" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="1"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f12 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s12 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text12 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText12 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 177 2345 869 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r12 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_12 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 177 2345 869</SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_13 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +491772345869 context="+49 177 2345 869" type=".flex" skypeid="13" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_13 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="13" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="1"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f13 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s13 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text13 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText13 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 177 2345 869 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r13 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_13 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 177 2345 869</SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_14 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +491772345869 context="+49 177 2345 869" type=".flex" skypeid="14" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_14 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="14" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="1"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f14 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s14 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text14 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText14 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 177 2345 869 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r14 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_14 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 177 2345 869</SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_highlight_15 class=skype_v3_tb_injection title=Call this phone number in Germany with Skype: +491772345869 context="+49 177 2345 869" type=".flex" skypeid="15" skypeaction="call" nof="" isfax="" freecall="" fwidth=".w16" mode=".compat" path="file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/" durex2="%DADDYHEIGHT%" durex="%DADDYWIDTH%"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/inactive_a.compat.flex.w16.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_droppart_15 class=skype_v3_tb_imgA title="Skype actions" skypeid="15" skypeaction="drop" skypesms="1"><SKYPE:SPAN style="BACKGROUND-IMAGE: url(file://C:/Users/jay/Temp/__SkypeIEToolbar_Cache/e70d95847a8f5723cfca6b3fd9946506/static/famfamfam/DE.gif)" id=skype_v3_tb_img_f15 class=skype_v3_tb_imgFlag></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_s15 class=skype_v3_tb_imgS></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_text15 class=skype_v3_tb_injectionIn><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_innerText15 class=skype_v3_tb_innerText> +49 177 2345 869 </SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN><SKYPE:SPAN id=skype_v3_tb_img_r15 class=skype_v3_tb_imgR></SKYPE:SPAN></SKYPE:SPAN> <SKYPE:SPAN id=softomate_v3_print_15 class=skype_v3_tb_injection_print context="">+49 177 2345 869</SKYPE:SPAN> <SPAN class=ecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN>fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95<BR>><SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><A href="http://www.elegosoft.com/">http://www.elegosoft.com</A><SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN>| Geschäftsführer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin<BR>> Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194<BR>><SPAN class=ecxecxecxApple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR></DIV></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></DIV></SPAN><BR class=ecxecxApple-interchange-newline></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> </body>
</html>