<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_6812">Hello:</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7698">DEC SRC involvement in releasing some "buggy code" (see differently from garbage collected programming work DEC SRC did proposals on C++ GC) to be studied:</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7980"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7981"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7978">Measurements of small academic programs don't cut it. (Small is anything less than 100,00 lines that runs for less than a few minutes.) Microsoft couldn't care less about a 25,000 line VLSI routing program. Getting commercial-scale benchmarks is very hard, not least because vendors treat their applications' source code as family jewels. When I was at DEC SRC, I initiated a project to measure the performance of some large DEC programs modified to use garbage collection, and I got Ben Zorn a research grant that would allow him to use those programs for his own university research. We need more such industry-research cooperation:</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_8489"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7487" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7493">ftp://ftp.cs.utexas.edu/pub/garbage/GC93/ellis.txt</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7494"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7493"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_8478"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7493">In fact there was a research on ESC project to make manual memory management (memory leaks) in Modula-3 checked by ESC, but it was dismissed, because of complexity of logic (meaning it was feasible but need more hard work).<br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7586"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7493">So even we get ever GPL Extended Static Checker Modula-3 code project (<100000 M3 loc) it would be invaluable (and DEC-SRC are mines of gold) to anyone using commercial applications and to us.<br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7699"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7493"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7587"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1504384894568_7493">Thanks in advance</span></div> <div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yahoo_quoted" style="display: block;"> <div style="font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 13px;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial" size="2"> El Viernes 1 de septiembre de 2017 16:00, "mika@async.caltech.edu" <mika@async.caltech.edu> escribió:<br></font></div> <br><br> <div class="y_msg_container"><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">Yeah I didn't mean to imply anything about GPL (or BSD, even, even though<br clear="none">I agree with Jay---I would much prefer that myself, I think that would be <br clear="none">an ideal outcome, because you can always incorporate BSD software in a <br clear="none">GPL distribution if that is what you want to do).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">The problem as I see it is that the old SRC license has one or two clauses that<br clear="none">make the M3 license effectively "non-free". Someone with legal authority would<br clear="none">have to give permission to license the system without those clauses. Ideally<br clear="none">just remove them, in which case I seem to remember the license wouldn't be too<br clear="none">far from BSD...<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> Mika<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Jay K writes:<br clear="none">>--_000_MWHPR18MB1214FAEB491872008CBDA390E6920MWHPR18MB1214namp_<br clear="none">>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br clear="none">>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<br clear="none">><br clear="none">>Please no. A relicense would be nice though-- BSD.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">>- Jay<br clear="none">>________________________________<br clear="none">>From: M3devel <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:m3devel-bounces@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:m3devel-bounces@elegosoft.com">m3devel-bounces@elegosoft.com</a>> on behalf of Darko Volaric <l=<br clear="none">><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:ists@darko.org" href="mailto:ists@darko.org">ists@darko.org</a>><br clear="none">>Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 10:08:00 AM<br clear="none">>To: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mika@async.caltech.edu" href="mailto:mika@async.caltech.edu">mika@async.caltech.edu</a><br clear="none">>Cc: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br clear="none">>Subject: Re: [M3devel] On the way to release other packages in GPL?<br clear="none">><br clear="none">>Wait, there is a serious move toward releasing under GPL? Or have I misun=<br clear="none">>derstood this email.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">>> On Sep 1, 2017, at 6:30 PM, <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mika@async.caltech.edu" href="mailto:mika@async.caltech.edu">mika@async.caltech.edu</a> wrote:<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Is there some consensus on what precisely needs to be extracted in terms<br clear="none">>> of a release? The Linux discussion earlier on this list made no sense<br clear="none">>> to me, it almost sounded like someone was wilfully misinterpreting the<br clear="none">>> plain English of the legalese.<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Also who is/has been the best lead so far? I can see if I can find<br clear="none">>> someone through various connections...<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Mika<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>> Hendrik Boom writes:<br clear="none">>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 05:27:16PM +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. =<br clear="none">>wro=3D<br clear="none">>>> te:<br clear="none">>>>> Hello:I fear most viable way to keep te language alive is to GPL it . S=<br clear="none">>oo=3D<br clear="none">>>> n we wont have the resortes to keep alive. Im not understimating anyone =<br clear="none">>her=3D<br clear="none">>>> e. But IMHO is de time to do it.=3DA0Thanks in advance<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> Any GPL-compatible license will work. Even MIT. Possibly even the =3D<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> so-called Creative Commons variation on public domain, which is =3D<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> meaningful in jurisdictions without a concept of public domain.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> The hard part is liberating the parts of the system that are currently =<br clear="none">>=3D<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> inder the existing Modula 3 license. They will have to be replaced if =<br clear="none">>=3D<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> we can't get the copyright owner to respond usefully.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> And that's a lot of work.<br clear="none">>>><br clear="none">>>> -- hendrik<br clear="none">>>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>>> M3devel mailing list<br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com">M3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" href="https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel" target="_blank">https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a><br clear="none">>> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">>> M3devel mailing list<br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com">M3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" href="https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel" target="_blank">https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a><br clear="none">><br clear="none">>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">>M3devel mailing list<br clear="none">><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com">M3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br clear="none">><a shape="rect" href="https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel" target="_blank">https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a><br clear="none">><br clear="none">>--_000_MWHPR18MB1214FAEB491872008CBDA390E6920MWHPR18MB1214namp_<br clear="none">>Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"<br clear="none">>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><html><br clear="none">><head><br clear="none">><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">><meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server"><br clear="none">><!-- converted from text --><style><!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; pad=<br clear="none">>ding-left: 4pt; border-left: #800000 2px solid; } --></style><br clear="none">></head><br clear="none">><body><br clear="none">><div><br clear="none">><div id=3D"x_compose-container" itemscope=3D"" itemtype=3D"<a shape="rect" href="https://schema.o=/" target="_blank">https://schema.o=</a><br clear="none">>rg/EmailMessage" style=3D"direction:ltr"><br clear="none">><span itemprop=3D"creator" itemscope=3D"" itemtype=3D"<a shape="rect" href="https://schema.org/Or=" target="_blank">https://schema.org/Or=</a><br clear="none">>ganization"><span itemprop=3D"name"></span></span><br clear="none">><div><br clear="none">><div style=3D"direction:ltr">Please no. A relicense would be nice though-- =<br clear="none">>BSD.</div><br clear="none">><div><br><br clear="none">></div><br clear="none">><div class=3D"x_acompli_signature">- Jay</div><br clear="none">></div><br clear="none">></div><br clear="none">><hr tabindex=3D"-1" style=3D"display:inline-block; width:98%"><br clear="none">><div id=3D"x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" =<br clear="none">>color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> M3devel <m3devel=<br clear="none">><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:-bounces@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:-bounces@elegosoft.com">-bounces@elegosoft.com</a>> on behalf of Darko Volaric <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:lists@darko.org" href="mailto:lists@darko.org">lists@darko.org</a>&g=<br clear="none">>t;<br><br clear="none">><b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 1, 2017 10:08:00 AM<br><br clear="none">><b>To:</b> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mika@async.caltech.edu" href="mailto:mika@async.caltech.edu">mika@async.caltech.edu</a><br><br clear="none">><b>Cc:</b> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:m3devel@elegosoft.com">m3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br><br clear="none">><b>Subject:</b> Re: [M3devel] On the way to release other packages in GPL?<=<br clear="none">>/font><br clear="none">><div> </div><br clear="none">></div><br clear="none">></div><br clear="none">><font size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;"><br clear="none">><div class=3D"PlainText">Wait, there is a serious move toward releasing und=<br clear="none">>er GPL? Or have I misunderstood this email.<br><br clear="none">><br><br clear="none">><br><br clear="none">>> On Sep 1, 2017, at 6:30 PM, <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mika@async.caltech.edu" href="mailto:mika@async.caltech.edu">mika@async.caltech.edu</a> wrote:<br><br clear="none">>> <br><br clear="none">>> <br><br clear="none">>> Is there some consensus on what precisely needs to be extracted in ter=<br clear="none">>ms<br><br clear="none">>> of a release? The Linux discussion earlier on this list made no =<br clear="none">>sense<br><br clear="none">>> to me, it almost sounded like someone was wilfully misinterpreting the=<br clear="none">><br><br clear="none">>> plain English of the legalese.<br><br clear="none">>> <br><br clear="none">>> Also who is/has been the best lead so far? I can see if I can fi=<br clear="none">>nd<br><br clear="none">>> someone through various connections...<br><br clear="none">>> <br><br clear="none">>> Mika<br><br clear="none">>> <br><br clear="none">>> Hendrik Boom writes:<br><br clear="none">>>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 05:27:16PM +0000, Daniel Alejandro Ben=<br clear="none">>avides D. wro=3D<br><br clear="none">>>> te:<br><br clear="none">>>>> Hello:I fear most viable way to keep te language alive is to G=<br clear="none">>PL it . Soo=3D<br><br clear="none">>>> n we wont have the resortes to keep alive. Im not understimating a=<br clear="none">>nyone her=3D<br><br clear="none">>>> e. But IMHO is de time to do it.=3DA0Thanks in advance<br><br clear="none">>>> <br><br clear="none">>>> Any GPL-compatible license will work. Even MIT. Possib=<br clear="none">>ly even the =3D<br><br clear="none">>>> <br><br clear="none">>>> so-called Creative Commons variation on public domain, which is =<br clear="none">>=3D<br><br clear="none">>>> <br><br clear="none">>>> meaningful in jurisdictions without a concept of public domain.<br=<br clear="none">>><br clear="none">>>> <br><br clear="none">>>> The hard part is liberating the parts of the system that are curre=<br clear="none">>ntly =3D<br><br clear="none">>>> <br><br clear="none">>>> inder the existing Modula 3 license. They will have to be re=<br clear="none">>placed if =3D<br><br clear="none">>>> <br><br clear="none">>>> we can't get the copyright owner to respond usefully.<br><br clear="none">>>> <br><br clear="none">>>> And that's a lot of work.<br><br clear="none">>>> <br><br clear="none">>>> -- hendrik<br><br clear="none">>>> _______________________________________________<br><br clear="none">>>> M3devel mailing list<br><br clear="none">>>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com">M3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br><br clear="none">>>> <a href=3D"<a shape="rect" href="https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel" target="_blank">https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a>"=<br clear="none">>><a shape="rect" href="https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel" target="_blank">https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a></a><br><br clear="none">>> _______________________________________________<br><br clear="none">>> M3devel mailing list<br><br clear="none">>> <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com">M3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br><br clear="none">>> <a href=3D"<a shape="rect" href="https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel" target="_blank">https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a>">htt=<br clear="none">>ps://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a><br><br clear="none">><br><br clear="none">>_______________________________________________<br><br clear="none">>M3devel mailing list<br><br clear="none">><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com">M3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br><br clear="none">><a href=3D"<a shape="rect" href="https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel" target="_blank">https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a>">https://=<br clear="none">>m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a><br><br clear="none">></div><br clear="none">></span></font><br clear="none">></body><br clear="none">></html><br clear="none">><br clear="none">>--_000_MWHPR18MB1214FAEB491872008CBDA390E6920MWHPR18MB1214namp_--<div class="yqt7528110776" id="yqtfd36634"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">M3devel mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com" href="mailto:M3devel@elegosoft.com">M3devel@elegosoft.com</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel" target="_blank">https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel</a><br clear="none"></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>