From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop Sat Mar 13 22:36:25 2021 From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2021 15:36:25 -0600 Subject: [M3announce] packedVars branch is now merged into master. Message-ID: The packedVars branch is now merged back into master. It has many changes. A summary: Enhanced handling of packed values. Allow more cases, fix bugs, handle them in new ways, e.g. passing as parameters. Packed scalars can not straddle word boundaries, but arrays and records can if their scanar elements don't. Fields and array elements can be sub-byte sized, with limits. Open array elements are limited to 1, 2, or 4 bytes, as a consequence. Packed fields/elements are handled in new places, e.g. as actual parameters. Sets are given the smallest of 8, 16, 32, or 64 that will hold them. But Sets larger than a word are still multiples of whole words. Sets can be packed to smaller sizes. Bugs in array and record constructors are fixed, including previously undetected range errors in fields/elements of constant constructors. Most cases of errors that are called runtime by Modula-3 but statically detectable only warn at compile time, but fail at runtime, unless the subject code is always guaranteed to be executed. Previously, nested constructors (including multi-dimensional arrays) were time- and space-inefficient, by building all the subconstructors separately, then copying to the elements of the outer constructor. Moreover, there were many cases of building at runtime, array dope with static shape, the later runtime-checking the shape against constants. This is eliminated. Array constructors almost always have static shape even with open type, denoted by the number of values between the braces. These are constructed and used with fixed array representation. There remain complex cases where runtime shapes are necessary. These changes apply to both all-constant constructors and those with some non-constant elements. These are handled quite differently. Pickles and m3gdb debug info are extend to support these changes. Internally, a confusion of alignments of pointers and alignments of their referents is untangled by maintaining bot values. A number of new and expanded test cases are included, for bug fixes and new behaviors. Many messages have section references to the Modula-3 definition. Assorted comment and error message improvements. Recompiles itself twice. -- Rodney Bates rodney.m.bates at acm.org From wagner at elegosoft.com Tue Mar 16 20:59:39 2021 From: wagner at elegosoft.com (Olaf Wagner) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 20:59:39 +0100 Subject: [M3announce] Mailing lists and website resources at elegosoft.com Message-ID: <14AE8009-E6BD-4AF1-ABC8-AC921DD22436@elegosoft.com> Hello everybody! There?s much traffic here in recent weeks, and not all of that is caused by meaningful messages from real users. In fact, the m3 mailing lists at elegosoft.com are used increasingly for spamming and we get more and more abuse warnings from our hosting provider. I also notice that we still host the now 20 years old website for cm3 which hasn?t changed for more than 10 years. Due to the COVID-19 pandemic our resources are currently rather limited. System administration would like to shutdown and get rid of as many legacy systems and liabilities as possible. At least we need to close the open subscription interfaces on the mailing lists as they are abused for spamming. Some counter measures have been implemented, but they are not as effective as needed. So what I?m asking is - which of the existing mailing lists and web resources are actually still needed - what can be done to enable a migration for example to github - and who would like to take care of either maintaining or migrating the existing legacy resources? Our system administration will close the open subscription option at the next weekend. We can continue to provide the list services with explicit subscription via member recommendation or something similar if that is wanted and needed. We can of course also just shutdown the complete lists and provide archives of the last 20 years of mailings to import or make available on another platform. I myself still feel somehow attached to m3, but haven?t actively contributed for many years and am not likely to find the time soon to do so. So anybody who would like to step in and take over something we still host is welcome. Olaf -- Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH -- http://www.elegosoft.com Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194 From dmuysers at hotmail.com Tue Mar 16 21:13:14 2021 From: dmuysers at hotmail.com (dirk muysers) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2021 20:13:14 +0000 Subject: [M3announce] [M3devel] Mailing lists and website resources at elegosoft.com In-Reply-To: <14AE8009-E6BD-4AF1-ABC8-AC921DD22436@elegosoft.com> References: <14AE8009-E6BD-4AF1-ABC8-AC921DD22436@elegosoft.com> Message-ID: Sorry, but I don?t see any spam on m3devel. All messages of this month have been technical Sent from my iPhone > On 16 Mar 2021, at 21:00, Olaf Wagner wrote: > > ?Hello everybody! > > There?s much traffic here in recent weeks, and not all of that is caused by > meaningful messages from real users. In fact, the m3 mailing lists at > elegosoft.com are used increasingly for spamming and we get more and more > abuse warnings from our hosting provider. > > I also notice that we still host the now 20 years old website for cm3 > which hasn?t changed for more than 10 years. > > Due to the COVID-19 pandemic our resources are currently rather limited. > System administration would like to shutdown and get rid of as many > legacy systems and liabilities as possible. At least we need to close > the open subscription interfaces on the mailing lists as they are abused > for spamming. Some counter measures have been implemented, but they are > not as effective as needed. > > So what I?m asking is > - which of the existing mailing lists and web resources are actually still > needed > - what can be done to enable a migration for example to github > - and who would like to take care of either maintaining or migrating the > existing legacy resources? > > Our system administration will close the open subscription option at the > next weekend. We can continue to provide the list services with explicit > subscription via member recommendation or something similar if that is > wanted and needed. We can of course also just shutdown the complete lists > and provide archives of the last 20 years of mailings to import or make > available on another platform. > > I myself still feel somehow attached to m3, but haven?t actively contributed > for many years and am not likely to find the time soon to do so. So anybody > who would like to step in and take over something we still host is welcome. > > Olaf > -- > Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH -- http://www.elegosoft.com > Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany > phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin > Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194 > _______________________________________________ > M3devel mailing list > M3devel at elegosoft.com > https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel From wagner at elegosoft.com Wed Mar 17 01:08:46 2021 From: wagner at elegosoft.com (Olaf Wagner) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 01:08:46 +0100 Subject: [M3announce] [M3devel] Mailing lists and website resources at elegosoft.com In-Reply-To: References: <14AE8009-E6BD-4AF1-ABC8-AC921DD22436@elegosoft.com> Message-ID: <51F74432-7F83-4BBA-B3E3-FF531584203E@elegosoft.com> On 16 Mar 2021, at 21:13, dirk muysers wrote: > Sorry, but I don?t see any spam on m3devel. All messages of this > month have been technical Well yes, my formulation was not completely accurate. The subscription interface of the mailing lists is used to bounce spam messages to arbitrary users, not to the list members. To the recipients of the spam messages it looks like they come from our mailing list administration. Those recipients then complain about us sending spam at our hosting provider. Mail has become one of the most abused services in the internet, and keeping up a reasonably robust open infrastructure gets more and more difficult. It?s rather sad. > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 16 Mar 2021, at 21:00, Olaf Wagner wrote: >> >> ?Hello everybody! >> >> There?s much traffic here in recent weeks, and not all of that is >> caused by >> meaningful messages from real users. In fact, the m3 mailing lists at >> elegosoft.com are used increasingly for spamming and we get more and >> more >> abuse warnings from our hosting provider. >> >> I also notice that we still host the now 20 years old website for cm3 >> which hasn?t changed for more than 10 years. >> >> Due to the COVID-19 pandemic our resources are currently rather >> limited. >> System administration would like to shutdown and get rid of as many >> legacy systems and liabilities as possible. At least we need to close >> the open subscription interfaces on the mailing lists as they are >> abused >> for spamming. Some counter measures have been implemented, but they >> are >> not as effective as needed. >> >> So what I?m asking is >> - which of the existing mailing lists and web resources are actually >> still >> needed >> - what can be done to enable a migration for example to github >> - and who would like to take care of either maintaining or migrating >> the >> existing legacy resources? >> >> Our system administration will close the open subscription option at >> the >> next weekend. We can continue to provide the list services with >> explicit >> subscription via member recommendation or something similar if that >> is >> wanted and needed. We can of course also just shutdown the complete >> lists >> and provide archives of the last 20 years of mailings to import or >> make >> available on another platform. >> >> I myself still feel somehow attached to m3, but haven?t actively >> contributed >> for many years and am not likely to find the time soon to do so. So >> anybody >> who would like to step in and take over something we still host is >> welcome. >> >> Olaf >> -- >> Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH -- >> http://www.elegosoft.com >> Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany >> phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 >> 86 95 >> Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin >> Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: >> DE163214194 >> _______________________________________________ >> M3devel mailing list >> M3devel at elegosoft.com >> https://m3lists.elegosoft.com/mailman/listinfo/m3devel -- Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH -- http://www.elegosoft.com Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194 From wagner at elegosoft.com Wed Mar 17 09:44:54 2021 From: wagner at elegosoft.com (Olaf Wagner) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 09:44:54 +0100 Subject: [M3announce] [M3devel] Mailing lists and website resources at elegosoft.com In-Reply-To: <25611615962847@mail.yandex.by> References: <14AE8009-E6BD-4AF1-ABC8-AC921DD22436@elegosoft.com> <51F74432-7F83-4BBA-B3E3-FF531584203E@elegosoft.com> <25611615962847@mail.yandex.by> Message-ID: On 17 Mar 2021, at 7:35, vvm at tut.by wrote: > ? No, HTTP(S) is not involved. The problem are the open SMTP interfaces of the mailing lists themselves. If the lists had an HTPPS interface, we could just put a Captcha on it to restrict the access. There is of course no completely open relay at Elego, just the open lists. Olaf -- Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH -- http://www.elegosoft.com Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop Wed Mar 17 16:29:35 2021 From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 10:29:35 -0500 Subject: [M3announce] [M3devel] Mailing lists and website resources at elegosoft.com In-Reply-To: <14AE8009-E6BD-4AF1-ABC8-AC921DD22436@elegosoft.com> References: <14AE8009-E6BD-4AF1-ABC8-AC921DD22436@elegosoft.com> Message-ID: On 3/16/21 2:59 PM, Olaf Wagner wrote: > Hello everybody! > > There?s much traffic here in recent weeks, and not all of that is caused by > meaningful messages from real users. In fact, the m3 mailing lists at > elegosoft.com are used increasingly for spamming and we get more and more > abuse warnings from our hosting provider. > > I also notice that we still host the now 20 years old website for cm3 > which hasn?t changed for more than 10 years. On a few occasions, I have started working on some updates to the web pages, but given up trying to reconcile the pages in the repository with what is actually being served. I had presumed the right way was to update the repository, then maybe move things to the server. The lists of file names in the two places have significant differences, and same-named files sometimes have significantly different content. I have felt a bit timid about tampering with them. Maybe I need to get bolder. > > Due to the COVID-19 pandemic our resources are currently rather limited. > System administration would like to shutdown and get rid of as many > legacy systems and liabilities as possible. At least we need to close > the open subscription interfaces on the mailing lists as they are abused > for spamming. Some counter measures have been implemented, but they are > not as effective as needed. > > So what I?m asking is > - which of the existing mailing lists and web resources are actually still > needed I think the 3 lists and the web pages are all needed. M3-announce gets used only occasionally, but that's the idea of an announce list. > - what can be done to enable a migration for example to github > - and who would like to take care of either maintaining or migrating the > existing legacy resources? > > Our system administration will close the open subscription option at the > next weekend. We can continue to provide the list services with explicit > subscription via member recommendation or something similar if that is > wanted and needed. We can of course also just shutdown the complete lists > and provide archives of the last 20 years of mailings to import or make > available on another platform. > > I myself still feel somehow attached to m3, but haven?t actively contributed > for many years and am not likely to find the time soon to do so. So anybody > who would like to step in and take over something we still host is welcome. > > Olaf > -- Rodney Bates rodney.m.bates at acm.org From jayk123 at hotmail.com Wed Mar 17 17:18:18 2021 From: jayk123 at hotmail.com (Jay K) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2021 16:18:18 +0000 Subject: [M3announce] [M3devel] Mailing lists and website resources at elegosoft.com In-Reply-To: References: <14AE8009-E6BD-4AF1-ABC8-AC921DD22436@elegosoft.com>, Message-ID: Oh, are these files live that I edited/renamed? docs: Replace porting instructions with something ? modula3/cm3 at ab4abde (github.com) I agree..it is not easy for me to document..what I know. What order? How to make it hierarchical vs. overly long stream? How to answer multiple/different questions w/o overloading with all the answers? Start writing new documenation/readme. by jaykrell ? Pull Request #152 ? modula3/cm3 (github.com) how to move discussion to github? Slack and Discord are so popular, and I guess Github will compete, but like the archival and search behavior of email. - Jay ________________________________ From: M3announce on behalf of Rodney M. Bates Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2021 3:29 PM To: Olaf Wagner ; m3announce at elegosoft.com ; m3devel Subject: Re: [M3announce] [M3devel] Mailing lists and website resources at elegosoft.com On 3/16/21 2:59 PM, Olaf Wagner wrote: > Hello everybody! > > There?s much traffic here in recent weeks, and not all of that is caused by > meaningful messages from real users. In fact, the m3 mailing lists at > elegosoft.com are used increasingly for spamming and we get more and more > abuse warnings from our hosting provider. > > I also notice that we still host the now 20 years old website for cm3 > which hasn?t changed for more than 10 years. On a few occasions, I have started working on some updates to the web pages, but given up trying to reconcile the pages in the repository with what is actually being served. I had presumed the right way was to update the repository, then maybe move things to the server. The lists of file names in the two places have significant differences, and same-named files sometimes have significantly different content. I have felt a bit timid about tampering with them. Maybe I need to get bolder. > > Due to the COVID-19 pandemic our resources are currently rather limited. > System administration would like to shutdown and get rid of as many > legacy systems and liabilities as possible. At least we need to close > the open subscription interfaces on the mailing lists as they are abused > for spamming. Some counter measures have been implemented, but they are > not as effective as needed. > > So what I?m asking is > - which of the existing mailing lists and web resources are actually still > needed I think the 3 lists and the web pages are all needed. M3-announce gets used only occasionally, but that's the idea of an announce list. > - what can be done to enable a migration for example to github > - and who would like to take care of either maintaining or migrating the > existing legacy resources? > > Our system administration will close the open subscription option at the > next weekend. We can continue to provide the list services with explicit > subscription via member recommendation or something similar if that is > wanted and needed. We can of course also just shutdown the complete lists > and provide archives of the last 20 years of mailings to import or make > available on another platform. > > I myself still feel somehow attached to m3, but haven?t actively contributed > for many years and am not likely to find the time soon to do so. So anybody > who would like to step in and take over something we still host is welcome. > > Olaf > -- Rodney Bates rodney.m.bates at acm.org _______________________________________________ M3announce mailing list M3announce at elegosoft.com https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fm3lists.elegosoft.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fm3announce&data=04%7C01%7C%7Cf241370a849249c7eec608d8e9598c7e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637515918114357190%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=sJHpiA3KiPJw45eM0XNh3jdTFWHTboFqCM1s%2BoLkMbg%3D&reserved=0 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: