[M3devel] serial/Cygwin

[Rodney M. Bates]

I agree that it is highly desirable to have both native windows and Cygwin
variants of Modula-3.  But I also think that it is unrealistic to try to
support a complete or even partial Cartesian product of all the many
separate options Jay enumerates.  Without debating whether it might be
desirable, it's just way too much work when there are other, more pressing
things to do with our limited support time.

Mix and match is just entirely unrealistic.  By the same reasoning, I
have given up on the similar ideal of making m3gdb handle a linked-together
mix of code from different Modula-3 compilers: PM3, CM3, standalone
backend, different versions of gcc-derived back end, etc.

I advocate a Cygwin target that is as Unix-like as possible, in as many
respects as possible, and a native Windows target that is as Windows-like
as possible in as many respects as possible.  No more.



Mika Nystrom wrote:
> Yes, I don't think the world is a terrible place because people like
> you exist :-)
> 
> I just think that Cygwin users generally have modest requirements.
> They're just trying to get something---anything!---to work on
> Windows, and if they want to do anything that's really Windows-specific
> I think they/we understand they/we may have to make the effort to
> learn a bit about Windows and use the native environment.
> 
> What it adds up to, in my opinion, is that one shouldn't screw
> things up in the native Windows port (or in the Unix ports) just
> to satisfy Cygwin users, who really don't care if Windows feature
> XYZ is available.
> 
> How many people actually use Modula-3 on Cygwin?  I do... and I
> just use it so I can run programs I developed on Unix on random
> Windows machines when the owners of those machines have made the
> bizarre (to me) decision to run Windows...
> 
> If anything, I'd like it if the Cygwin Modula-3 were *less* Windows-y
> than it is now.  For instance, the version I use has Windows
> file-locking semantics, i.e., default readers-and-writers locking
> on all open files, which can be quite annoying when porting from
> Unix.  It also uses a different epoch for Time.T.  Not sure if
> the current version has these features...
>    
>      Mika
> 
> "Randy Coleburn" writes:
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>> I do use Cygwin on occasion, but I'm not sure how most Cygwin users feel =
>> about it and Modula-3.
>> =20
>> Mika has a point that if you want to create an environment on Windows that =
>> is devoid of Microsoft tools, the Cygwin Modula-3 may be what you are =
>> looking for.
>> =20
>> On the other hand, I am in a camp of folks who don't mind using the =
>> Microsoft tools and want Modula-3 to work out of the box on Windows =
>> without having to add any other non-Microsoft stuff (like Cygwin).
>> =20
>> I think it is great for CM3 to be able to support both these camps!
>> =20
>> Thus, you will find me always advocating for keeping the "CM3 on Windows =
>> variant" where it will work on Windows using just the Microsoft tools.  I =
>> am happy with the use of Windows threads and the native backend and use of =
>> the MS Visual Studio linker.
>> =20
>> Regards,
>> Randy Coleburn
>>