[M3devel] my status on win32
Jay
jayk123 at hotmail.com
Wed Jan 16 16:28:52 CET 2008
Randy, yes and no and clarifications.
I mention starting with 5.1.6 as a "worst" or "worse" case.
The earlier you start, the harder things are -- for me, to ensure it will work.
If you merely start with my 5.5.0, well, what are you rebuilding from source for?
Heck, you can use any binary distribution, 4.1, 5.1.6, and just use it. They should work.
The n steps you/I give are really actually geared for people who WANT to build from source, it is not what people HAVE to do.
As well there have been can be source distributions, to cut out CVS.
I'll look into the datefn stuff shortly.
As to the installer, well, again, yes and no.
The need for the installer is very small. All you have to do today is unzip the .zip somewhere and set the path, and possibly the vcvars thing. That's it. I should..now that you are "pressuring" me for ease of use, teach cm3 about the various %devenvdir%, %vcinstalldir% variables, etc. That way as long as the user installed the tools, even if they elected not to change path/lib/include, cm3 can find the compiler and linker. I know everyone wants to preserve the flexibility of quake/cm3.cfg but...besides, cm3 can be pretty darn smart here. IF cm3.cfg defines SYSTEM_CC, leave things along (NT386 cm3.cfg does not today do that). However if there is now SYSTEM_CC and there is no cl.exe/link.exe in %PATH%, it could go on a quick hunt for them. On the lib and include part, well, the dependency on %include% might only be for errno..maybe not worth it. It has been whatever it is forever, like int* _errno(void); #define errno (*_errno)()). Modula-3 engages in rampant header cloning and CErrnoC was only introduced where that was deemed more fragile than usual, and for Windows it probably wasn't actually fragile -- the fragility, if I may be so rudely judgemental, is because so many other systems are so Johnny-come-lately to arriving at the obviously correct threading model that Windows has had all along (since Win95/NT, can't say anything good about Win3.1; I think OS/2 might have had it correct all along too.). Funny, everyone has FINALLY arrived at the correct threading model, only to have start changing again, since the number of cores and machines is set to be much greater than anticipated, the obvious threading model has been deemed too difficult for anyone to use (Win32, Modula-3, Java, .NET, Python, all the same supposedly too difficult model btw), and so some new one is needed, and well, truthfully, the difficulty is not just for dummies on relatively small multiproc boxes not having simple race conditions, the problem is scaling way way up.
Sorry that was my usual tangential.
Even the unzip and set path would benefit slightly from a GUI installer.
I believe there is some easy thing you can do where you write your GUI installer and you put it in the .zip and then you prepend the GUI self extracting .zip/.exe stub, and you can tell it to run a particular command after the extraction.
I guess you might use a fancier thing though?
That is, are you going to, say, write a gui installer from scratch in Modula-3? It might be a fun exercise. :)
And then you could build the self extracting prefix from source etc.
This is the hard way I guess, but more interesing.
If you can build an msi or use InstallShield or Wix or something, go ahead.
If you use widely availabe free as in beer tools, that can be rolled into whatever automation there is to produce distributions, keeping it up to date shouldn't be a problem.
I do have to bring up some annoying questions:
1) Does anyone besides me have the capacity to produce distributions? i.e.: Any Win32 machines left at Elego?
2) I know I ramble. So one of my many tangents/questions went unanswered.
Say, in the absence of a gui installer, should .zips/.tar.bz files look like
cm3-min-<version>/bin/cm3
or
bin/cm3
or
cm3/bin/cm3
The last one is more directly usable. The first one is very common.
This reminds me though Randy, the distribution I made available was "min", so yeah, like if you are doing any gui programming, using any "standard" library besides m3core or libm3, you'd need to build more from source.
I can readily provide you a "std" distribution though.
It's "always" been a "problem" to make my files available -- no web site hosting for me -- but recently that wasn't a problem, someone picked the files out of ~jkrell on birch and put them on the web site. Good.
One more thing -- Olaf, please confirm repeat yourself, 'cause I admit I wasn't sure it was the right thing, but if you insist, ok. "std" should be "all"? I should not continue to imagine there is a new larger group called "all"? And wherever things are missing from std but do build ok, add them?
m3cc should be in std?
(I admit some big indecisiveness around m3cc. It is far and away the longest thing to build and so the one you really want to skip the most and leave out of whatever package group. I also wonder if on Windows, there should be some check where if sh is not in the $PATH, just silently skip m3cc? You only need MingWin to build what I have on my system for NT386GNU, except you also need msys just for m3cc. msys is actually quite small, like only 20 files..)
Oh, sorry, yet another question.
The non-gcc backend is excluded from the build on systems that use the gcc backend.
For minimization, that is appropriate.
For maximizing cross build capability, it is wrong.
The packages build fine. I suspect they work.
I am not a user of cross build capability yet, so I don't really care. (What I do for NT386/NT386GNU /might/ be considered sort of a cross build, but it is different/easier).
They are small packages.
- Jay
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:25:49 -0500From: rcoleburn at scires.comTo: m3devel at elegosoft.com; jayk123 at hotmail.comSubject: Re: [M3devel] my status on win32
Jay:
There is no line in the m3makefile dealing with datefn, so I added the whole statement just before the line
include("version.quake")
Now, I get an error saying that the variable datefn is not defined.
If you change to put quotes around datefn in the include statement, you get an error saying it can't open the file.
You made a reference in one of your earlier posts about trying 5.1.6 or 4.1, but note that I started with your cm3-min-WIN32-NT386-d5.5.0.zip , not the 5.1.6 or 4.1 versions. Thus, using d5.5.0 as a base, I am trying to run your "upgrade.cmd" to rebuild the sources I checked out from CVS. Since this doesn't work "out-of-the-box", again I say this fits into the "Broken #1" category.
If I can get this to work, I don't mind putting together a Windows installer program that will install the whole thing. That way, folks won't have to install cygwin just to get CVS so that they can install a working cm3. Folks will need to install the free Microsoft Visual C as a prerequisite, but then that's not too bad. Having an installer program would make cm3 more friendly to Windows folks. The current 16-step method is too laborious and error-prone for the person just getting started and they will not give cm3 a second try.
As the cm3 system evolves and new releases are made, we will need to keep the installer program up-to-date and I don't mind doing that. After someone gets familiar with cm3 they might want to delve into some of the scripts for rebuilding the system, but until then, I think the installer program is the way to go.
Regards,
Randy>>> Jay <jayk123 at hotmail.com> 1/16/2008 1:01 AM >>>I think I see the problem. in cm3\src\m3makefile, make this change > if not defined("NOW") include(datefn) > end datefn is only created if certain other variables aren't defined, and do-pkg defines them.I don't know why I don't see this. Later.Could be that the Python scripts have a typo and don't define them.I've been using them more than cmd. If the host is NT, "NOW" is either gotten from an updated cm3.exe, or left to "not available". So the initial cm3 built from older cm3 can't report when it was built, but cm3 built from current cm3 can. I need to change that: 1) to be a function for niceness 2) to make it that way for Posix, for any host but I haven't been using Posix as much lately so not testing it. - Jay
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 23:55:39 -0500From: rcoleburn at scires.comTo: m3devel at elegosoft.com; jayk123 at hotmail.comSubject: RE: my status on win32
Jay:
In the file version.quake, I made the following edit:
changed line: local datefn = "../" & TARGET & ".datenow"
to: local datefn = ".." & SL & TARGET & ".datenow"
This change has the effect of putting a backward slash in the pathname instead of a forward slash, so we getC:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3\src\..\NT386.datenow
So from that perspective, the change seems good.
Unfortunately, I still get the error that this file can't be opened.
A quick check of C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3\NT386 shows that the file .datenow does not exist.
Regards,
Randy>>> Jay <jayk123 at hotmail.com> 1/15/2008 11:03 PM >>>That's not too bad really. 1) I'd recommend putting cm3 at the start of the path instead of the end. 2) Just comment out the offending code to make progress. It's not critical. >> C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3\src\../NT386.datenow The code is: C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3\src\version.quake or such, included by cm3\src\m3makefile. Does the file exist?Does version.quake use "/" or "SL"? If it uses "/", try replacing with SL (and ampersand for string concat). Could be that a newer binary distributions works better with forward slashes. > 4. > 5.
> 6. Launch cygwin from desktop icon.
Cygwin is only needed for cvs, I think you realize.
Could you send me offline the result of just running "set" after running vcvarsall?
I'd like to adapt pylib.py to it maybe.
(I can start from 5.1.6 and will try 4.1 at some point.)
- Jay
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 22:52:59 -0500From: rcoleburn at scires.comTo: m3devel at elegosoft.com; jayk123 at hotmail.comSubject: my status on win32
Jay et al:
I've listed below the steps I've undertaken to try and build the current sources on Windows XP.
I've also attached a text file showing the output I got when trying to build everything using Jay's upgrade.cmd script.
Unfortunately, I'm getting a build error (see below).
Please advise on how to resolve.
STEPS I TOOK:
=========
1. Download Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Express Edition All-in-One .ISO file and burn to DVD. http://www.microsoft.com/express/download/
2. Install Microsoft Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition from DVD.
3. Use "Microsoft Update" service to check for updates / service packs.
4. Download cygwin setup program from http://cygwin.com/
5. Ran cygwin setup.exe program to install cygwin for all users. Under "Devel" category, make certain to select "cvs" for installation.
6. Launch cygwin from desktop icon.
7. In cygwin command shell window, execute following two commands, making sure to give email as password when prompted for login: cvs -d :pserver:anonymous at modula3.elegosoft.com:/usr/cvs login cvs -d :pserver:anonymous at modula3.elegosoft.com:/usr/cvs checkout cm3
8. Moved resulting C:\cygwin\home\rcoleburn\cm3 to C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree Note that you should replace "rcoleburn" above with your Windows login username.
9. Download cm3-min-WIN32-NT386-d5.5.0.zip and cm3-min-WIN32-NT386-d5.5.0-symbols.zip from http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cm3/download.html
10. Unzipped cm3-min-WIN32-NT386-d5.5.0.zip and stored resulting cm3 folder at C:\cm3
11. Unzipped cm3-min-WIN32-NT386-d5.5.0-symbols.zip and stored resulting symbols folder at C:\cm3\symbols
12. Launch Windows Command Prompt shell. The following steps represent commands executed within this shell.
13. path %path%;c:\cm3\bin
14. "C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\vcvarsall.bat"
15. cd C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\scripts\win
16. upgrade.cmd
ERROR I'M GETTING:
=============
=== package C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3 ===+++ "cm3 -build -DROOT=C:\\CM3_CVS_SourceTree -DCM3_VERSION_TEXT=d5.5.1 -DCM3_VERSION_NUMBER=050501 -DCM3_LAST_CHANGED=2007-12-30 && cm3 -ship -DROOT=C:\\CM3_CVS_SourceTree -DCM3_VERSION_TEXT=d5.5.1 -DCM3_VERSION_NUMBER=050501 -DCM3_LAST_CHANGED=2007-12-30" +++--- building in NT386 ---
ignoring ..\src\m3overrides
"C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3\src\version.quake", line 136: quake runtime error: unable to open "C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3\src\../NT386.datenow" forreading
--procedure-- -line- -file---include -- <builtin>version_impl 136 C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3\src\version.quakeinclude_dir 20 C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3\src\m3makefile 8 C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3\NT386\m3make.args
Fatal Error: package build failedERROR: "cm3 -build -DROOT=C:\\CM3_CVS_SourceTree -DCM3_VERSION_TEXT=d5.5.1 -DCM3_VERSION_NUMBER=050501 -DCM3_LAST_CHANGED=2007-12-30 && cm3 -ship -DROOT=C:\\CM3_CVS_SourceTree -DCM3_VERSION_TEXT=d5.5.1 -DCM3_VERSION_NUMBER=050501 -DCM3_LAST_CHANGED=2007-12-30"ERROR: cd C:\CM3_CVS_SourceTree\m3-sys\cm3ERROR: set INSTALLROOT=c:\cm3
Regards,
Randy
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