[M3devel] small objects

[Tony Hosking]

I really don't like your proposal for the reasons you mention.  It  
makes regular REF more expensive than it currently is.  What is it  
about my relatively minor changes to the type system that you object  
to?  I've just about finished changing the compiler front-end (in  
relatively minor ways) to accomodate the proposal I made yesterday.   
And it has the advantage of separating REF from TAGGED REF so we keep  
the standard REF clean.

On 7 Apr 2009, at 00:50, Mika Nystrom wrote:

> Hi Rodney,
>
> I would like this capability too, but I am a bit wary of Tony's
> idea of changing the Modula-3 language---even in a "minor" way.
> I've been working for the last week or so on an application using
> the Modula-3 Toolkit, and I must say I have realized that the
> Modula-3 type system has a lot more subtleties than I thought.  I
> would not want to make any real changes to it.  There's a paper
> called "The Modula-3 Type System" by Cardelli, Donahue, Kalsow, and
> Nelson that is worth studying in detail before making any changes
> whatsoever, I think.  Also remember that changes to the type system
> will affect m3tk and anything that depends on m3tk (which includes
> two or three stub generators in the main tree and who knows how
> many dependencies outside of it).
>
> I'm still not sure why we can't take the approach of Word.T .
> Make a RefanyOrInt.T that can safely be:
>
> 1. Tested whether it is a small integer or a REFANY
>
> 2. If a REFANY, be dereferenced as normal, *or* via
>   RefanyOrInt.ToRefany
>
> 3. If a small integer, can be extracted via RefanyOrInt.ToInt
>
> 4. Created either as a small integer or a REFANY
>
> Any other operations on it (including ISTYPE and TYPECASE, at least
> when the object is a small integer) would result in a checked runtime
> error.
>
> Note that with the declaration "RefanyOrInt.T = REFANY", the current
> compiler will as far as I know not accept any operations on
> RefanyOrInt.T outside of ISTYPE, TYPECASE, and NARROW (explicit or
> implicit).
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if most of what I'm proposing already works
> (i.e., crashes with a checked runtime error as it should) with the
> current runtime.  Anything that slips through would need to be fixed
> up with a one-bit check of the LSB of the REFANY for the operations
> mentioned above.  Unfortunately this has to be done for operations on
> every REFANY, not just the new type.
>
> I think that Modula-3 programmers are already aware that using
> REFANYs involves forcing the runtime to do extra type-checking work,
> so they already know not to use them if they are looking for maximum
> performance, so I don't think that burdening operations on REFANY
> with an extra one-bit check is too onerous.
>
> An advantage of my proposal is that the amount of code in the new
> proposed library is truly diminutive.  In fact, I think I posted
> pretty much that code to the list a few weeks ago.
>
> (If you missed it, it's
>
> http://www.async.caltech.edu/~mika/interp/
>
> )
>
>     Mika
>
>
> "Rodney M. Bates" writes:
>> I spent quite a bit of time playing with a more general system where
>> there is a set of "tagged" types, with (an implementation-defined
>> subrange of) INTEGER and a reference type both being a subtype of a
>> tagged type.  It might have been tolerable, if it weren't for the
>> interaction with object subtypes and opaque types, which quickly
>> gets deep into a deep linguistic tar pit.
>>
>> Tony's approach is much simpler and would serve what I see as the
>> need.  It does sacrifice any static checking of what reference type
>> is being tagged, and will also require an extra runtime ISTYPE/ 
>> TYPECASE.
>>
>> Would INTEGER and REFANY be assignable to TAGGED, or would there
>> also need to be an explicit conversion in that direction too, say
>> VAL(x, TAGGED)?  I think I favor the explicit conversion here.  It
>> is a bit inconsistent with the usual Modula-3 assignability  
>> philosophy,
>> but not requiring the explicit conversion already gets your toes  
>> into tar.
>>
>> We would have to have something more like ISTYPE, though, which will
>> tell which type the value belongs to without risking a runtime error,
>> which VAL would do.
>>
>> An intermediate approach might be to have a set of tagged types
>> constructed by, say, TAGGED T, where I is a reference type, but
>> with no subtype relations on them at all, thus still requiring
>> the explicit conversions and checks.
>>
>> I do want to say, I _really_ want this capability somehow.  I have
>> an ADT module whose internal data structure, for full generality,
>> needs to have two heap objects (the second because it has nonstatic
>> size) and 11 total words counting the orginal pointer, in the case of
>> values that would fit directly  into the "pointer" word.  Moreover,
>> these small cases are in the great majority.
>>
>> Besides the 11-to-one increase in actual occupied space, there
>> is extra time for allocation, periodic tracing, and collection, space
>> loss due to heap fragmentation, and time/space tradeoff loss due to
>> reduced locality of reference.  So sometimes, it would be a big
>> performance gain if we could do it.
>>
>>
>> Tony Hosking wrote:
>> It is a much more pervasive hack than I would be comfortable with
>>> since it touches on the compiler (for all the type operations) as  
>>> well
>>> as the run-time system in ways that are pretty gross.  I would much
>>> rather have a new TAGGED builtin.  ISTYPE would not work on it since
>>> that only works on references.  The only thing you need is a way to
>>> extract the value -- we could overload VAL(x, T) where x can be a
>>> TAGGED and T can be REFANY or INTEGER.
>>>
>>>