[M3devel] Linux/ARM? Android?

Sun Jun 20 05:17:03 CEST 2010

Hi:
yes, you can if you wish, that is, you can redirect the x window session and get access through a host different port (see info below) from a new x client or even forwarding x over a ssh session or separated (ideal if you wish), I haven't  tried to do it (I have old hardware, I guess you should be able to virtualize some very decent and cheap system as see below SuSE article points out) but you should be able to do that. Please see this article for the first (the qemu-system- -redir command option):
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/opensource/library/l-qemu-development/index.html?ca=drs-
you can select the window manager you wish I remember a friend used to talk about WindowMaker he said it was very cheap in terms of RAM and it allowed to do your work just out of the box (he had a very old i486 laptop with it I guess with < 64 MB RAM just to monitor other servers).
There is a bright idea about clustering with OpenMosix (which used to work years ago now there is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinuxPMI for that purpose) using QEMU, see this old article http://www.novell.com/coolsolutions/feature/14951.html 
you might get some old machines back into life with a net interface in a cluster and mount your disk too.
Hope it helps.

--- El sáb, 19/6/10, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribió:

> De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Linux/ARM? Android?
> Para: "Darko (M3)" <darko at darko.org>
> CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> Fecha: sábado, 19 de junio, 2010 19:33
> 
> None?
> None yet?
> You are supposed to be able run user mode stuff without
> installing any kernel or anything.
> If I emulate an entire system, can the display be remoted
> over X?
> I never go to the Linux "console", just ssh or X over ssh.
> 
>  - Jay
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: darko at darko.org
> > Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:30:12 -0700
> > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu
> > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Subject: Re: [M3devel] Linux/ARM? Android?
> >
> > I mean as your ARM platform. Which ARM distribution
> are you running on QEmu?
> >
> >
> > On 19/06/2010, at 5:26 PM, Jay K wrote:
> >
> >
> > I didn't know what "lxde" is, but Debian 5.0 x86
> "Lenny". Minimal install plus apt-get install whatever.
> >
> > - Jay
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >> From: darko at darko.org
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 17:06:11 -0700
> >> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu
> >> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> >> Subject: Re: [M3devel] Linux/ARM? Android?
> >>
> >> A fully crossed system would be the goal since
> mostly the target devices are ARM are phones, tablets and
> embedded devices. What distribution are you running on QEmu?
> Is it the Lenny-lxde one?
> >>
> >> Linux/ARM is definitely fractured because of the
> variety of ARM cores, SoC chips and devices on which it's
> used. I'm not sure what the best way to approach it is.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 19/06/2010, at 4:42 PM, Jay K wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I should point out, actually, with cross gcc/as,
> you should be able to easily enough build the whole system
> cross.
> >> ie: your apps instead of cm3.
> >> I can try that -- building the whole tree cross,
> including compiling C and linking.
> >>
> >>
> >> Notice
> m3-sys/cminstall/src/config-no-install/ARMEL_LINUX:
> >>
> >>
> >> SYSTEM_CC = "arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc -gstabs+ -fPIC"
> % C compiler
> >> SYSTEM_ASM = "arm-linux-gnueabi-as" % Assembler
> >>
> >>
> >> I get to:
> >> jay at xlin2:~/cm3-boot-ARMEL_LINUX-d5.8.2-20100619$
> file cm3
> >> cm3: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1
> (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux
> 2.6.14, not stripped
> >> jay at xlin2:~/cm3-boot-ARMEL_LINUX-d5.8.2-20100619$
> qemu-arm ./cm3
> >> /lib/ld-linux.so.3: No such file or directory
> >>
> >>
> >> My QEmu setup isn't complete..
> >>
> >>
> >> I got the crosstools from hereabouts:
> >> http://www.emdebian.org/tools/crosstools.html
> >>
> >>
> >> crosstool, scratchbox, buildroot may also be good
> options.
> >>
> >>
> >> This reminds me though, I have a Western Digital
> MyBook World Edition.
> >> Haven't powered it on in a while, slightly flaky
> device.
> >> But it runs Linux/arm (oldabi).
> >> I could/should power it on or get a new one
> something.
> >>
> >>
> >> Also note/reminder, Android seems a bit different,
> at least in terms of finding C headers and libraries, maybe
> not for generating assembly, than "regular" Linux/arm.
> >> Really "Linux/arm" seems a pretty fractured
> thing.
> >> Newer architectures have floating point, for one
> thing.
> >>
> >>
> >> - Jay
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------
> >>> From: darko at darko.org
> >>> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 15:47:24 -0700
> >>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu
> >>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [M3devel] Linux/ARM? Android?
> >>>
> >>> Fantasic, thanks. There are some ARM cross
> tools available under DarwinPorts which I'm going to give
> this a try with.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 19/06/2010, at 2:51 AM, Jay K wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Eh I guess I should try that then. Ok. Thanks.
> Gotta take a break for a while.
> >>> cd wherever
> >>> cvs -z3 upd -dAP
> >>> cd scripts/python
> >>> ./boot1.py ARMEL_LINUX
> >>> => cm3-boot-ARMEL_LINUX...tgz
> >>> extract that on a machine with cross tools
> (e.g. arm-linux-gnueabi-gcc, arm-linux-gnueabi-as), possibly
> the same machine as already on
> >>> cd into it
> >>> make
> >>> => arm cm3
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I got that far.
> >>> I can't claim it is right for Android.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Then put that cm3 onto a real (or emulated)
> ARM system and...
> >>> (cvs checkout, put the cm3 in /cm3/bin or
> such, add that to $PATH, and scripts/python/boot2.sh)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Moving forward to gcc 4.5 will get us atomics
> for ARM, sort of, at least on Linux, see:
> >>> http://gcc.gnu.org/wiki/Atomic
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - Jay
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>> From: darko at darko.org
> >>>> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 02:15:17 -0700
> >>>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu
> >>>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [M3devel] Linux/ARM?
> Android?
> >>>>
> >>>> I should also mention that the Android SDK
> has a QEMU based emulator for testing applications and the
> adb (Android Bridge) tool can provide shell access.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 19/06/2010, at 12:13 AM, Darko wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I got the first Debian image on http://www.oszoo.org/wiki/index.php/Category:ARM_images
> to run with a GUI, and it connect to the network. I'm using
> Q on my 2.4Ghz MacBook 13" and it's surprisingly fast. Note
> that it's a 10GB image (450MB download).
> >>>>
> >>>> There are also images for Debian MIPS on
> that site too.
> >>>>
> >>>> I agree that the new MacBook trackpad is
> not perfect and since moving from my previous machine that
> had a separate button I now get a lot of stray gestures
> doing odd things. The general solution is not to use the
> button at all and use taps. The new momentum scrolling with
> the gesture is neat but needs more "weight". Unfortunately
> Apple crosses over into form-over-function territory from
> time to time and this is one of those times.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 18/06/2010, at 11:18 PM, Jay K wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> XP when I can; nothing else comes close
> for searching and editing text, I've tried many.
> >>>> Visual C++ 5.0.
> >>>> I recently learned how to copy/paste in
> vi, which helps, but I'm not sure I remember now.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Darwin/amd64 when I need/want
> posix/fastfork, which unfortunately is often.
> >>>> Cygwin is slow.
> >>>> TextWrangler usually there, though it is
> awful compared to Visual C++ 5.0.
> >>>> KomodoEdit is cross platform but also
> fairly impaired.
> >>>> ssh access to a variety
> >>>> Linux=Debian, it has among the best
> support for a variety of platforms.
> >>>> Gentoo comes close or better (ppc64) but
> I've never been able to get it to install -- booting always
> fails.
> >>>> Debian/x86 easy to get cross compiler,
> qemu, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> X Windows apps are never very good imho,
> so just give up and make do with the even worse command
> line..
> >>>> I find things as basic as scrollbars do
> not work well -- which button do I press when?
> >>>> The Modula-3 GUI apps suffer from this
> problem as well.
> >>>> Further damage due to needing three
> buttons but not having them.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Mouse button clicking is actually broken
> on modern Macs too -- they removed the mouse button from all
> the laptops, leaving
> >>>> just a big pad, prone to accidental clicks
> at any location.. also prone to accidental multitouch
> gestures due to resting
> >>>> a twitchy thumb where the button is
> supposed to be. Amazing, really, the mouse, one of their key
> initial advantages,
> >>>> is now broken. (see also Finder and file
> open dialogs, two other former strengths that are now not so
> great.)
> >>>> Multitouch scroll is nice though.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> - Jay
> >>>>
> >>>> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>> From: darko at darko.org
> >>>>> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 22:55:24 -0700
> >>>>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu
> >>>>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [M3devel] Linux/ARM?
> Android?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yeah I've got it working on the
> console but I agree it needs the network.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Try: http://www.oszoo.org/wiki/index.php/Category:ARM_images
> >>>>> Also: http://www.armedslack.org/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What platform are you running on these
> days?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 18/06/2010, at 10:44 PM, Jay K
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Interesting, thanks.
> >>>>> But it looks like it needs to use
> local console for output?
> >>>>> I need something over the network/X.
> >>>>> It looks like there's an qemu option
> for usemode only too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> - Jay
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>> From: darko at darko.org
> >>>>>> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2010 22:13:43
> -0700
> >>>>>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu
> >>>>>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [M3devel] Linux/ARM?
> Android?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If you use qemu, this might be
> useful: http://free-electrons.com/community/demos/qemu-arm-directfb/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm currently looking at some
> cheap laptops (around $100) which have ethernet plus screen,
> keyboard, battery, etc which would work well as hosts. Just
> trying to find one that runs both Linux and Android.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 18/06/2010, at 10:04 PM, Jay K
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks. I'll give qemu a go as
> well.
> >>>>>> Hey, maybe we can get mips also.
> (there's decent modern mips/linux hardware now, Chinese
> laptops)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> - Jay
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>> From: darko at darko.org
> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010
> 21:41:59 -0700
> >>>>>>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu
> >>>>>>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [M3devel]
> Linux/ARM? Android?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ok, the link here is about
> 20/4Mbs so it shouldn't be too bad and the latency is good.
> I'm in Mountain View, CA. Unfortunately the board has only
> 128MB of main memory but I assume that's enough, I think a
> self hosted compiler has no point.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'll post the details when
> it's up and running.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 17/06/2010, at 9:15 PM, Jay
> K wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My preference would be if you
> can set it up on the internet and allow me ssh access.
> >>>>>>> gcc only recently got support
> for Android's C library "bionic", I believe post-gcc 4.5.
> >>>>>>> I'm not sure if that matters
> much or not.
> >>>>>>> I'm not sure how much the C
> library of the target matters to gcc.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Anything with pthreads and gcc
> support is quite easy to port to these days. In the past the
> biggest thing you had to do was rewrite /usr/include in
> Modula-3. There was a tendency to rewrite far more of it
> than necessary. These days, none of it is needed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Now you just have to
> >>>>>>> - pick a target name
> >>>>>>> - find the jmpbuf size, word
> size, endian
> >>>>>>> - write a much small "config"
> file
> >>>>>>> - respond to each error that
> occurs -- fill in the platform in a few tables sprinkled
> around the tree
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Even systems without pthreads
> or with not very good pthreads (OpenBSD) are easy now, as
> the user thread support is much more portable. It used to
> be, for user threads, you had to poke around in the jmpbuf.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would encourage anyone else
> to try it out.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Maybe soon there will be a C
> generating backend, and we'll just have one distribution
> format that is a bunch of C, and then gcc support won't even
> be needed (e.g. IA64_NT).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>>> - Jay
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>> From: darko at darko.org
> >>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010
> 18:08:14 -0700
> >>>>>>>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu
> >>>>>>>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [M3devel]
> Linux/ARM? Android?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've been interested in an
> ARM port for some time. If you (or anyone else) are
> interested in doing the port I can send you one of these,
> which looks like a good platform since it runs Linux and
> Android, has 512K memory and looks well supported: http://beagleboard.org/hardware
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 20/05/2010, at 4:47 AM,
> Jay K wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Status is roughly
> nowhere.
> >>>>>>>> Chances are not bad
> though.
> >>>>>>>> There is very little work
> to do when the system supports posix and gcc supports the
> system, and that describes a lot of systems.
> >>>>>>>> Try this: cd
> scripts/python && ./boot1.py ARM_LINUX
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Give me ssh access to a
> device?
> >>>>>>>> Or maybe there is
> emulator?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I've had a PogoPlug
> (Linux/ARM) for over a year, haven't touched it.
> >>>>>>>> And some I think Linux/ARM
> LaCie network drive also.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - Jay
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> ----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>> From: dragisha at m3w.org
> >>>>>>>>> To: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> >>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010
> 12:08:53 +0200
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: [M3devel]
> Linux/ARM? Android?
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> As per subject... What
> is status of Linux/ARM port of Modula-3 and
> >>>>>>>>> chances for Android
> port?
> >>>>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>>>> Dragiša Durić
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>     
>         
>           
>   