[M3devel] 5.8.6 LINUXLIBC6 breakage, kernel 2.6.23, glibc-2.6-4 message dated "Fri, 22 Apr 2011 06:29:08 -0000."

Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
Fri Apr 22 23:02:28 CEST 2011

Hi all:
if the problems were the thread package then we will be easyly solved for us, but instead the question how much we owe to each platforms depednence part, e.g:
Cvsup was created with Pm3 and/or Ezm3, Pm3 with Linux almost perfect coverage of all source of incompatibilities and so, DEC SRC was make it freely available in any site without too much effort, though by doing it In Modula-3 made almost hard to erase fame of hard thing to do.
Then Digital split ended with this efforts going on and meanwhile DEC SRC was being distributed as source compatible with pm3, or with cm3 even. Later Cm3 became an open product and everyone kept their objectives so don't think is easy to do that. Instead, there should be an easy way I Think to recover to be in that point. I mean:
CM3 -> DEC SRC, DEC SRC -> PM3, and PM3 -> EZM3 -> Cvsup & Spin.
I think there should be enough number of similar or almost equal modules same, so most of the time is relinking stuff.
I think every one hast its own rights to believe the things they believe.
I think what my old M3 Professor told me once before retired, Modula-3 didn't gain more users because the lack of an IDE, today there is not reason to say that, instead the market has grown a lot times faster then why should I believe it doesn't hold true (why we don't have Cm3 running a Cvsup server, why Cm3 is not running a Spin community, why Cm3 is not hosting several projects in web platforms, why Cm3 is not running Obliq3D stuff, and I could say more but but we don't want to be there I guess this is enough too much or little I don't know, we are not there still, Mika's projects, DEC SRC missing packages, zeus3D, etc).

Let me know your thoughts and thanks in advance

--- El vie, 22/4/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribió:

De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] 5.8.6 LINUXLIBC6 breakage, kernel 2.6.23, glibc-2.6-4    message dated "Fri, 22 Apr 2011 06:29:08 -0000."
Para: "Mika Nystrom" <mika at async.caltech.edu>
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: viernes, 22 de abril, 2011 14:25

Most of this is is not related to using C. Details below.

> -- Threads work perfectly in PM3.  In CM3 it's very much ???

PM3 only uses user threads, right?
And the only problem with user threads on CM3 currently is that it depends on pthread_atfork
recently and hopefully briefly, and libc/libpthread is broken on some systems and we have to workaround.

> -- It took five years to get TEXT working acceptably (as in, no stack
>    overflows!) in CM3.  Now seems more or less OK, but Text.Hash is
>    still possibly an order of magnitude slower than .

I strongly suspect the problem here is in the library design.
It is ok to have a readonly string type, but programmers should also have
access to a writable/growable string/buffer type.
See what C# and Java do.
I suspect TEXTs problems stem from trying to make TEXT be both types in one.
i.e. handling a lot of concatenation efficiently.

> -- I have no debugger that works for CM3.  m3gdb is *very useful* for
>    the old PM3.  No it doesn't work perfectly but you can set breakpoints
>    and print variables but that's what at least I use a debugger for.

CM3 m3gdb should be the same as it ever was.
I've started work on making stock gdb worthwhile but it is mostly/all disabled currently,
as exposing correct typeinfo to the backend has a tendency to break things.

> -- CM3 has some weird performance issues; namely ISTYPE and TYPECASE
>    are very slow

Unrelated. And maybe we should look into it.

> -- m3tk is broken owing to the introduction of LONGINT.  This is not a


> -- other LONGINT problems...


> In fact I think they mostly come from things that were done at Critical Mass, Inc.

Yes, definitely at least some.

> have had *something* to do with someone's attempt to make Modula-3 more
> of "all things to all people" than it was.

We should be able to do somewhat better overall..

PM3 also doesn't support pthreads or Win32 or work on any modern Linux system, right?

 - Jay
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