From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 02:43:17 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 01:43:17 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Message-ID: <1312418597.70691.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
just FYI to let you know, and ask if anybody has a copy of it [1] how hard  do you thinks it is? See:
http://books.google.com/books?id=TF5VAAAAMAAJ&q=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&dq=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&hl=en&ei=UMk5Tt69DOLc0QHq3YX8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgU

The actual book preview at:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ax2QXEwXhzQC

Maybe that there are partners on this:
http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/asmsurv.htm


Thanks in advance

[1] D. A. Schmidt, The structure of typed programming languages. MIT Press, 1994.


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 22:53:16 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 21:53:16 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <1312418597.70691.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1312491196.95925.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I guess there should be some number of literature quite useful as academic bibliography.
If somebody agree for instance to base some of this on theoretical background, but there is a point on it.
Likewise any modern computer compiler is appearing without too much knowledge of its own, some of this may be shared knowledge for instance in the advantage of implementing an improved systematic language, or specific purpose like small-lisp package (I'm obviating thesis languages which are still sometimes common in the sense of academic terms, which reminds me have any one tried m3loader for instance for such an environment in DEC-SRC M3?), anything else is just spurious for this analysis.
I would argue that synthethyzing all of this knowledge since it's natural language and matehematical abstraction hard stuff would be worth the value.

Basically the most material I have found is on:
Abadi-Cardelli logic
Abadi-Cardelli Applications (GIS, etc) 
Abadi-Cardelli Further developments

Abadi-Plotkin logic
Abadi-Plotkin formulae reasoning
Abadi-Plotkin + other's descriptions

Abadi-Leino ESC system Ecstatic
Abadi-Leino ESC technological improvements

And finally I would make an improvement on logically synthesize both mathematically and structurally to its bare roots and develop a prototype of it, perhaps M3Fsub or baby Modula-3 or anything any one would want or dare to observe in that way.

Similarly a improved theoretical background is needed as I can see for the whole project, for instance claim we achieved of certain subsets of the language properties of no-RT errors, correctness, etc, I would this claim be called Super theory of Baby Modula-3 and arrive to the Modula-3 or so language(s) in some handbook of the material (I would kindly ask if so the publication of somebody like Modula3.org/books donation for Modula3 Projects or the part I can get to work without more knowledge).

I hope this can satisfy the need of more tools to start something with that in Modula-3.

Thanks in advance

PS: A genealogy web page could work for that as well, so don't need to copy/paste unneeded stuff 


--- El mi?, 3/8/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 3 de agosto, 2011 19:43
> Hi all:
> just FYI to let you know, and ask if anybody has a copy of
> it [1] how hard  do you thinks it is? See:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=TF5VAAAAMAAJ&q=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&dq=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&hl=en&ei=UMk5Tt69DOLc0QHq3YX8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgU
> 
> The actual book preview at:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Ax2QXEwXhzQC
> 
> Maybe that there are partners on this:
> http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/asmsurv.htm
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> [1] D. A. Schmidt, The structure of typed programming
> languages. MIT Press, 1994.
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 23:08:43 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 22:08:43 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_--f8CNQd-uotTHF82gAK8ci04dUBLsOzPsEY=dTJy8gnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312492123.34824.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand, so there is some place they might put as core like ontological reasoning, or something like that and they need to be expanded to be comprehensive or enough wise).
Thanks in advance

PS if Elego folks don't care I can put a theory web page of it.

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:00


"I would argue that synthethyzing all of this knowledge since it's natural language and matehematical abstraction hard stuff would be worth the value."



why not make a zip file with all the pdfs then?



wouldn't that syntetize it?





On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

I guess there should be some number of literature quite useful as academic bibliography.

If somebody agree for instance to base some of this on theoretical background, but there is a point on it.

Likewise any modern computer compiler is appearing without too much knowledge of its own, some of this may be shared knowledge for instance in the advantage of implementing an improved systematic language, or specific purpose like small-lisp package (I'm obviating thesis languages which are still sometimes common in the sense of academic terms, which reminds me have any one tried m3loader for instance for such an environment in DEC-SRC M3?), anything else is just spurious for this analysis.



I would argue that synthethyzing all of this knowledge since it's natural language and matehematical abstraction hard stuff would be worth the value.



Basically the most material I have found is on:

Abadi-Cardelli logic

Abadi-Cardelli Applications (GIS, etc)

Abadi-Cardelli Further developments



Abadi-Plotkin logic

Abadi-Plotkin formulae reasoning

Abadi-Plotkin + other's descriptions



Abadi-Leino ESC system Ecstatic

Abadi-Leino ESC technological improvements



And finally I would make an improvement on logically synthesize both mathematically and structurally to its bare roots and develop a prototype of it, perhaps M3Fsub or baby Modula-3 or anything any one would want or dare to observe in that way.





Similarly a improved theoretical background is needed as I can see for the whole project, for instance claim we achieved of certain subsets of the language properties of no-RT errors, correctness, etc, I would this claim be called Super theory of Baby Modula-3 and arrive to the Modula-3 or so language(s) in some handbook of the material (I would kindly ask if so the publication of somebody like Modula3.org/books donation for Modula3 Projects or the part I can get to work without more knowledge).





I hope this can satisfy the need of more tools to start something with that in Modula-3.



Thanks in advance



PS: A genealogy web page could work for that as well, so don't need to copy/paste unneeded stuff





--- El mi?, 3/8/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 3 de agosto, 2011 19:43

> Hi all:

> just FYI to let you know, and ask if anybody has a copy of

> it [1] how hard  do you thinks it is? See:

> http://books.google.com/books?id=TF5VAAAAMAAJ&q=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&dq=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&hl=en&ei=UMk5Tt69DOLc0QHq3YX8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgU



>

> The actual book preview at:

> http://books.google.com/books?id=Ax2QXEwXhzQC

>

> Maybe that there are partners on this:

> http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/asmsurv.htm

>

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> [1] D. A. Schmidt, The structure of typed programming

> languages. MIT Press, 1994.

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/1e067ddd/attachment.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 23:36:07 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 22:36:07 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_zjOyuWbDNNP=GeF9CbOWzD9fwQdsujJYNwLp=QYnb7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312493767.83355.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:

Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.

Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?

Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,



I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/0cfe0ffc/attachment.html>

From felipevaldez at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 23:52:30 2011
From: felipevaldez at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:52:30 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <1312493767.83355.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_zjOyuWbDNNP=GeF9CbOWzD9fwQdsujJYNwLp=QYnb7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1312493767.83355.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_-96-MbbT-oD6iJ2e1rA+q9+at8ACRC-DfBo2S-NpC6qRg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
> this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is
> need of this indeed in science, see [1]:
>
>

what are their names?



> Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of
> this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and
> do it.
>
> Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth
> the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care
> as an adult that as well?
>
>

no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.




> Thanks in advance
>
> [1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School
> Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.
>
>
> --- El *jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>* escribi?:
>
>
> De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
> Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
> dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
> That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially
> diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't
> know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,
>
>
>
> I'm sure it's "worth the value".
>
> let me know when you get real clients.
>
>


-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/189b9def/attachment.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Aug  5 00:39:01 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 23:39:01 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-96-MbbT-oD6iJ2e1rA+q9+at8ACRC-DfBo2S-NpC6qRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312497541.24539.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I don't know if you don't but I have met many real philosophical clients. This guys are the most extreme and useful thinkers of the entire world, they should be known AFAIK philosophical schools, one of them says, say Euclid (see his postulates), see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

If you care about this matters then you are in the right wing I mean in the good point if I may say so,  I give you back this answer, the set of this philosophical thinkers are bounded by the amount of schools teaching geometry in their schools.

If you can count them, I think you are a great mathematician as I believe you are, and I'm not even as smart as you I think you can solve it.
Thanks in advance


PS I know of a local renown mathematician late Chaves who won a Presidental medal, who used to assist to calculus conferences, once he answered what the conference speaker must answer and he got it right, but not the guy in there. I assume somebody must have a test that's why I give you back the answer, if so please answer it. But I give you my clue [1]

[1] S. R. Lele and J. T. Richtsmeier, An Invariant Approach to Statistical Analysis of Shapes, 1st ed. Chapman and Hall/CRC, 2001.


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:52



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:





what are their names?
 

Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.



Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?





no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.

 

Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.



--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez
 <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:






Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,





I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/ce92d529/attachment.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Aug  5 00:58:05 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 23:58:05 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_--AyGZHLEpW1CxZpdt-5er4za6FaOe55hmkCnpNRa48dA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312498685.25311.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
but that's somehow unfair without previous knowledge I mean,
I don't know your real clients of that thing, if that's what you are
asking for. This is somehow a paradox, don't you think? Undesired by
too many this days I believe.
For instance, you can't count on the fifth parallel postulate of Euclid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_postulate

That's why I ask you can prove an converse axiom such as find a problem where you can solve and transform that into that other former problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playfair%27s_axiom

Thanks in advance


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 17:43

I'd rather have "paying" clients, than "hypothetical" ones, do you know what I mean? $$$




On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
I don't know if you don't but I have met many real philosophical clients. This guys are the most extreme and useful thinkers of the entire world, they should be known AFAIK philosophical schools, one of them says, say Euclid (see his postulates), see:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

If you care about this matters then you are in the right wing I mean in the good point if I may say so,  I give you back this answer, the set of this philosophical thinkers are bounded by the amount of schools teaching geometry in their schools.



If you can count them, I think you are a great mathematician as I believe you are, and I'm not even as smart as you I think you can solve it.
Thanks in advance


PS I know of a local renown mathematician late Chaves who won a Presidental medal, who used to assist to calculus
 conferences, once he answered what the conference speaker must answer and he got it right, but not the guy in there. I assume somebody must have a test that's why I give you back the answer, if so please answer it. But I give you my clue [1]



[1] S. R. Lele and J. T. Richtsmeier, An Invariant Approach to Statistical Analysis of Shapes, 1st ed. Chapman and Hall/CRC, 2001.


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>


Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:52



On Thu, Aug 4,
 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:




Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:





what are their names?
 





Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.



Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?







no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.

 





Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.



--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:





De: felipe valdez
 <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>




Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:










Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,







I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunter

Casa: 8043901






-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/815d01b9/attachment.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Aug  5 03:58:55 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 02:58:55 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-8_iBaRzJyMD=Zd1cn4QBf51nZdoYNJZcWFzP6+3GWrGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312509535.15691.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Let me tell you and know something about my little economicssupport knowledge, there is by no means an obvious and profitable of doing everything, but ure one way exists for doing so fairly: monopolies don't help the world as most of my working knowledge has been it's way through DEC and Universities, but admitedely, there is not just one way of solving those problems (anything else is brain-damaged).
I will give you this references so you may have more to think about that before you give yourself a better idea:
http://www.iacp.dvo.ru/is/publications/E__papers_04-ru-Artemieva.pdf

And just two references of that as well for Modula-3 hard thinkers (being one myself if I may say so):
http://www.cs.rug.nl/~wim/pub/whh217.ps.gz
http://www.cs.rug.nl/~wim/pub/whh233.ps.gz

But there are many others who deserve that tittle, before me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_postulate

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 18:14



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
but that's somehow unfair without previous knowledge I mean,



business is not meant to be fair, it is meant to be profitable.
unless it generates cash, it dies.
such is the world we live in, unfortunately.


how's the job search?
 

 I don't know your real clients of that thing, 
of course, they do not exist.
before you write a single line of code, make sure a contract is signed.


programming without payment, is a waste of time.
 

if that's what you are asking for. This is somehow a paradox, don't you think?

no,


it is a product that didn't have commercial traction of it's competitors (at the time, c, pascal),which both evolved into current commercial endeavours (c++0x, delphi).


  Undesired by too many this days I believe (risks)



yes, every enterprise will have risks, but if you get a client convinced of the Idea, that you are a "safe bet", or at least a "not so risky one", you win.



 

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 17:43

I'd rather have "paying" clients, than "hypothetical" ones, do you know what I mean? $$$






On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:






Hi all:
I don't know if you don't but I have met many real philosophical clients. This guys are the most extreme and useful thinkers of the entire world, they should be known AFAIK philosophical schools, one of them says, say Euclid (see his postulates), see:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

If you care about this matters then you are in the right wing I mean in the good point if I may say so,  I give you back this answer, the set of this philosophical thinkers are bounded by the amount of schools teaching geometry in their schools.





If you can count them, I think you are a great mathematician as I believe you are, and I'm not even as smart as you I think you can solve it.
Thanks in advance


PS I know of a local renown mathematician late Chaves who won a Presidental medal, who used to assist to calculus
 conferences, once he answered what the conference speaker must answer and he got it right, but not the guy in there. I assume somebody must have a test that's why I give you back the answer, if so please answer it. But I give you my clue [1]





[1] S. R. Lele and J. T. Richtsmeier, An Invariant Approach to Statistical Analysis of Shapes, 1st ed. Chapman and Hall/CRC, 2001.


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:





De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>




Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:52



On Thu, Aug 4,
 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:






Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:





what are their names?
 









Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.



Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?









no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.

 









Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.



--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:







De: felipe valdez
 <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>






Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:














Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,









I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunter

Casa: 8043901






-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunter

Casa: 8043901







-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110805/616783a1/attachment.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 17 19:08:06 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:08:06 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] A bigger library for GUI packages
Message-ID: <1313600886.64449.YahooMailClassic@web29702.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I have read about something called Visual Modula something like a Modula-3 Delphi for Object pascal.
If there is interest do you think the best IDE available for that is of Modula-3 server gui akin Gtk/Qt C--, and if so embedded systems like Qttopia,  even more supporting X on Modula-3 seems not very plausible but feasible through distributed C-- and threading, if so, could be a framework to develop embedded, Linux, unix* os, etc, toolkit really multiplatform (Object Model compiled to Modula-3 nevertheless, if so taking advantage of ESC and tools alike).
Something like this:
http://www.google.com/patents/about/6149318_Link_time_and_run_time_error_det.html?id=axgFAAAAEBAJ

What do you think?
Thanks in advance


From dragisha at m3w.org  Wed Aug 17 19:05:55 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:05:55 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
Message-ID: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>

This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.

***
*** runtime error:
***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
***
  VAR
    res: INTEGER;
    sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
                                                         (* ^ elt pointer*)
  BEGIN
    res := 1;
    FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
      res := res * sizes^;
      INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
    END;
    res := res * adef.elementSize;
    res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
    RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
  END OpenArraySize;

OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.

TIA,
dd



From hosking at cs.purdue.edu  Wed Aug 17 21:04:41 2011
From: hosking at cs.purdue.edu (Tony Hosking)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:04:41 -0400
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
Message-ID: <7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>

That suggests a corrupted heap of some kind.
How could an open array ever have negative size?


On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:

> This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.
> 
> ***
> *** runtime error:
> ***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
> ***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
> ***
> VAR
>   res: INTEGER;
>   sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
>                                                        (* ^ elt pointer*)
> BEGIN
>   res := 1;
>   FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
>     res := res * sizes^;
>     INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
>   END;
>   res := res * adef.elementSize;
>   res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
>   RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
> END OpenArraySize;
> 
> OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.
> 
> TIA,
> dd
> 



From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 17 22:34:19 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:34:19 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <1313613259.53545.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
if there is soe assumpution like:
http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cm3/doc/help/gen_html/m3front/src/types/OpenArrayType.m3.html


Since it's an UNSAFE MODULE I guess enough sanity checks are not there or not enough for that to happen, (a type error or the message "CM3 restriction: open array elements must be byte-aligned")
So, does the collector assume that or it just ignore the "restriction", sort of lifting it or such. Or this is just a small commentary out of place?

Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 17/8/11, Tony Hosking <hosking at cs.purdue.edu> escribi?:

> De: Tony Hosking <hosking at cs.purdue.edu>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
> Para: "Dragi?a Duri?" <dragisha at m3w.org>
> CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 17 de agosto, 2011 14:04
> That suggests a corrupted heap of
> some kind.
> How could an open array ever have negative size?
> 
> 
> On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
> 
> > This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both,
> on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same
> pint, but same place in RTCollector.
> > 
> > ***
> > *** runtime error:
> > ***    An enumeration or subrange value was
> out of range.
> > ***    file
> "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
> > ***
> > VAR
> >   res: INTEGER;
> >   sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h +
> ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
> >               
>                
>                
>         (* ^ elt pointer*)
> > BEGIN
> >   res := 1;
> >   FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1
> DO
> >     res := res * sizes^;
> >     INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
> >   END;
> >   res := res * adef.elementSize;
> >   res := RTMisc.Upper(res +
> adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
> >   RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
> > END OpenArraySize;
> > 
> > OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is
> important in any way.
> > 
> > TIA,
> > dd
> > 
> 
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 17 23:48:08 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:48:08 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] A bigger library for GUI packages
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_rOWZ=gBHtNom1UaX9d=kLWDn2pGnuKEbUh5227mmceA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1313617688.68382.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi:
I agree on such web apps, if you see there isn't anything more than CM3-IDE but if so, I would want to play with web forms in a sense like reactive objects, then computation model is somehow different of what Modula-3 was supposed to do in its time, systems programming to make web applications or cloud programming, it could be fun project and I think there is a project on that, but again, it should be software to do with an application programmer than with a systems programmer, I felt in the latter category long ago, I can't seeing myself written Java applets for living (I know some might do that anyway), I mean, you loose both sides of the programming arena, in one easy propagation of changes in Modules, and in the other side you sort of have the same restrictions of the former (Java or JS are a kind of lacking of that I believe if I may say so), but you need somehow light weight system (a small JVM for instance could be of good use) or a microkernel
 but ...
Anyway it could be a good task for a philosopher to think about that, there was somework on the Vantage project in SUN, but then theyy made a mistake made some small computers with JVM chips but this were quickly displaced by x86 family.
I guess your suggestion is something like that, isn't it? A distributed application like for small businesses and something with special value for all mases is pretty hard, given the market trends a new product for the masses is better a new product for a small business oriented system. However I still think there are many years to go from the Business model to the Masses model you think that's near at least in the SUN times it wasn't now I don't know, it might true as well both can coexist if such day comes then it's a new design for the masses what is wanting for the thing I guess is where you want to be, I feel your perspective is although present I don't know how much near of the reality of every day life. I hope is not though.
Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 17/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] A bigger library for GUI packages
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 17 de agosto, 2011 12:20



On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

I have read about something called Visual Modula something like a Modula-3 Delphi for Object pascal.

If there is interest do you think the best IDE available for that is of Modula-3 server gui akin Gtk/Qt C--, 
the desktop is dead, better search for a cgi replacement.create te user interfaces in html, interact via the browser.

this gives you flexibility, portability and nicer windows and stuff, with a lot less work.if you want to run the app locally, you can have it run at localhost on a given port.many apps do this already (mantis, webmin, etc).


 and if so embedded systems like Qttopia,  even more supporting X on Modula-3 seems not very plausible but feasible through distributed C-- and threading, if so, could be a framework to develop embedded, Linux, unix* os, etc, toolkit really multiplatform (Object Model compiled to Modula-3 nevertheless, if so taking advantage of ESC and tools alike).



Something like this:

http://www.google.com/patents/about/6149318_Link_time_and_run_time_error_det.html?id=axgFAAAAEBAJ





What do you think?

I think the web is the future, search for html generation frameworks in m3 or make it yourself, if you are so-inclined.
no?



 
Thanks in advance




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110817/d9e1e70c/attachment.html>

From dragisha at m3w.org  Thu Aug 18 09:48:26 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:48:26 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>

It happens with same code on three platforms and two versions... I can
send you my source to try to debug it - m3gdb frustrates me a lot these
days... 

Is it working at all? Or maybe on some of my platforms it is worth a
try? (m3gdb)

TIA,
dd

On Wed, 2011-08-17 at 15:04 -0400, Tony Hosking wrote:
> That suggests a corrupted heap of some kind.
> How could an open array ever have negative size?
> 
> 
> On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
> 
> > This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.
> > 
> > ***
> > *** runtime error:
> > ***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
> > ***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
> > ***
> > VAR
> >   res: INTEGER;
> >   sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
> >                                                        (* ^ elt pointer*)
> > BEGIN
> >   res := 1;
> >   FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
> >     res := res * sizes^;
> >     INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
> >   END;
> >   res := res * adef.elementSize;
> >   res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
> >   RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
> > END OpenArraySize;
> > 
> > OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.
> > 
> > TIA,
> > dd
> > 
> 

-- 
Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org>



From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop  Fri Aug 19 00:49:17 2011
From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 17:49:17 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
	<1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>
Message-ID: <4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>



On 08/18/2011 02:48 AM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
> It happens with same code on three platforms and two versions... I can
> send you my source to try to debug it - m3gdb frustrates me a lot these
> days...
>
> Is it working at all? Or maybe on some of my platforms it is worth a
> try? (m3gdb)

It works to a considerable extent for me when compiling using the release
compiler, on LINUXLIBC6 and AMD64_LINUX.  The head compiler just about
completely breaks m3gdb.  Someone took all the types out of the generated
debug information and it cripples m3gdb.  I have been planning to put it
back in "real soon" for some time.

With the head compiler, there are still entirely too many bugs and things
not implemented, but a lot works.  Especially, method and procedure calls
typed in m3gdb commands mostly work, which opens up a lot of possibilities,
e.g., calling a no-side-effects procedure again that you stopped just after
and want to know what happened inside it.

Also, you call type calls on lots of procedures in the RTS.  You could, for
example, call OpenArraySize, which looks like a pure function, lots of times,
with varying parameters.  Sort of a limited Modula-3 interpreter.

Of course, you need to have compiled the RTS with debug info to do very much
meaningful breaking/stepping, etc. inside the procedure you call.  Even without,
you can see if it crashes or what value it returns.

>
> TIA,
> dd
>
> On Wed, 2011-08-17 at 15:04 -0400, Tony Hosking wrote:
>> That suggests a corrupted heap of some kind.
>> How could an open array ever have negative size?
>>
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
>>
>>> This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.
>>>
>>> ***
>>> *** runtime error:
>>> ***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
>>> ***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
>>> ***
>>> VAR
>>>    res: INTEGER;
>>>    sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
>>>                                                         (* ^ elt pointer*)
>>> BEGIN
>>>    res := 1;
>>>    FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
>>>      res := res * sizes^;
>>>      INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
>>>    END;
>>>    res := res * adef.elementSize;
>>>    res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
>>>    RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
>>> END OpenArraySize;
>>>
>>> OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>> dd
>>>
>>
>


From jay.krell at cornell.edu  Fri Aug 19 00:57:41 2011
From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:57:41 +0000
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>,
	<1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>,
	<4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>
Message-ID: <COL101-W59D403A54D0EF469CE2C6BE62B0@phx.gbl>


> compiler, on LINUXLIBC6 and AMD64_LINUX.  The head compiler just about
> completely breaks m3gdb.  Someone took all the types out of the generated
> debug information and it cripples m3gdb.  I have been planning to put it
> back in "real soon" for some time.

 That was not my intent.
 And should be easy to fix. 

 
 - Jay

 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110818/5309d779/attachment.html>

From dragisha at m3w.org  Fri Aug 19 08:10:02 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:10:02 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <COL101-W59D403A54D0EF469CE2C6BE62B0@phx.gbl>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>,
	<1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>,
	<4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>
	<COL101-W59D403A54D0EF469CE2C6BE62B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <041B195B-C600-444F-B80E-EC23D73B629E@m3w.org>

Early in the morning and all? But - Yay, does this mean we can expect this in working condition soon?

Rodney, so - my best route for the moment would be 5.8.6-REL on AMD64_LINUX? 

TIA,
dd

On Aug 19, 2011, at 12:57 AM, Jay K wrote:

> > compiler, on LINUXLIBC6 and AMD64_LINUX. The head compiler just about
> > completely breaks m3gdb. Someone took all the types out of the generated
> > debug information and it cripples m3gdb. I have been planning to put it
> > back in "real soon" for some time.
> 
>  That was not my intent.
>  And should be easy to fix. 
> 
>  
>  - Jay

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110819/73e50275/attachment.html>

From dragisha at m3w.org  Sat Aug 20 20:40:26 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 20:40:26 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
Message-ID: <1D0DC2EC-63DA-4D50-9FA9-E8256A2803BF@m3w.org>

"../src/ArcGrid.m3", line 28: LOOPHOLE: expression's size differs from type's

PROCEDURE SwapFloat(f: REAL): REAL =
  BEGIN
    RETURN LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of course :)
  END SwapFloat;

BITSIZE is 32 for both.

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sun Aug 21 00:27:52 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 23:27:52 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
In-Reply-To: <1D0DC2EC-63DA-4D50-9FA9-E8256A2803BF@m3w.org>
Message-ID: <1313879272.69576.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I think this is just a failed check (an over check) of what it is suppose to think, is better to assert type errors than false execution ill-behavior (since this is not the case) one's assumption may be over checked, and thus you get the type error (otherwise you would like need some to think like this, I'm not against it just that, but this is pure dreams in one big head):
http://www.dorje.com/netstuff/jokes/prog.smurf

http://venus.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/amo/AMO-Berlin/index.html

If you see it's akind of what you would want, type safe checking of C C++ superset of it with Obliq-like language. It's written in Gnu C. It's JIT

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 20/8/11, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> escribi?:

> De: Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org>
> Asunto: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
> Para: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> Fecha: s?bado, 20 de agosto, 2011 13:40
> "../src/ArcGrid.m3", line 28:
> LOOPHOLE: expression's size differs from type's
> 
> PROCEDURE SwapFloat(f: REAL): REAL =
>   BEGIN
>     RETURN LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f,
> Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of course :)
>   END SwapFloat;
> 
> BITSIZE is 32 for both.


From felipevaldez at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 05:26:09 2011
From: felipevaldez at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 22:26:09 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
In-Reply-To: <1313879272.69576.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <1D0DC2EC-63DA-4D50-9FA9-E8256A2803BF@m3w.org>
	<1313879272.69576.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_-_kw9=Y9jiFWD0F4Bx_K7g1Pn21pLo643L0Hkp7ndVhjg@mail.gmail.com>

maybe:

print(typeof(expression))

for each of these expressions:

1. LOOPHOLE(DUMMY_VAR, REAL);

2. NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned))

3. LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned)

4. LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of
course :)


is there a typeof operator in modula3, or a typeid operator in modula3?



On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
> I think this is just a failed check (an over check) of what it is suppose
> to think, is better to assert type errors than false execution ill-behavior
> (since this is not the case) one's assumption may be over checked, and thus
> you get the type error (otherwise you would like need some to think like
> this, I'm not against it just that, but this is pure dreams in one big
> head):
> http://www.dorje.com/netstuff/jokes/prog.smurf
>
> http://venus.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/amo/AMO-Berlin/index.html
>
> If you see it's akind of what you would want, type safe checking of C C++
> superset of it with Obliq-like language. It's written in Gnu C. It's JIT
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El s?b, 20/8/11, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> escribi?:
>
> > De: Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org>
> > Asunto: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
> > Para: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> > Fecha: s?bado, 20 de agosto, 2011 13:40
> > "../src/ArcGrid.m3", line 28:
> > LOOPHOLE: expression's size differs from type's
> >
> > PROCEDURE SwapFloat(f: REAL): REAL =
> >   BEGIN
> >     RETURN LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f,
> > Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of course :)
> >   END SwapFloat;
> >
> > BITSIZE is 32 for both.
>



-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110821/ebe99f17/attachment.html>

From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop  Mon Aug 29 17:59:08 2011
From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:59:08 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] test 2
Message-ID: <4E5BB74C.1020304@lcwb.coop>

Test 2



From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop  Tue Aug 30 17:10:31 2011
From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 10:10:31 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
Message-ID: <4E5CFD67.3060408@lcwb.coop>

My posts to this list are usually getting stopped by my ISP's being blacklisted.
Here is about the 4th try:

On 08/19/2011 01:10 AM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
 > Early in the morning and all? But - Yay, does this mean we can expect this in working condition soon?
 >
 > Rodney, so - my best route for the moment would be 5.8.6-REL on AMD64_LINUX?

Yes.


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 02:43:17 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 01:43:17 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Message-ID: <1312418597.70691.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
just FYI to let you know, and ask if anybody has a copy of it [1] how hard  do you thinks it is? See:
http://books.google.com/books?id=TF5VAAAAMAAJ&q=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&dq=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&hl=en&ei=UMk5Tt69DOLc0QHq3YX8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgU

The actual book preview at:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ax2QXEwXhzQC

Maybe that there are partners on this:
http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/asmsurv.htm


Thanks in advance

[1] D. A. Schmidt, The structure of typed programming languages. MIT Press, 1994.


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 22:53:16 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 21:53:16 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <1312418597.70691.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1312491196.95925.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I guess there should be some number of literature quite useful as academic bibliography.
If somebody agree for instance to base some of this on theoretical background, but there is a point on it.
Likewise any modern computer compiler is appearing without too much knowledge of its own, some of this may be shared knowledge for instance in the advantage of implementing an improved systematic language, or specific purpose like small-lisp package (I'm obviating thesis languages which are still sometimes common in the sense of academic terms, which reminds me have any one tried m3loader for instance for such an environment in DEC-SRC M3?), anything else is just spurious for this analysis.
I would argue that synthethyzing all of this knowledge since it's natural language and matehematical abstraction hard stuff would be worth the value.

Basically the most material I have found is on:
Abadi-Cardelli logic
Abadi-Cardelli Applications (GIS, etc) 
Abadi-Cardelli Further developments

Abadi-Plotkin logic
Abadi-Plotkin formulae reasoning
Abadi-Plotkin + other's descriptions

Abadi-Leino ESC system Ecstatic
Abadi-Leino ESC technological improvements

And finally I would make an improvement on logically synthesize both mathematically and structurally to its bare roots and develop a prototype of it, perhaps M3Fsub or baby Modula-3 or anything any one would want or dare to observe in that way.

Similarly a improved theoretical background is needed as I can see for the whole project, for instance claim we achieved of certain subsets of the language properties of no-RT errors, correctness, etc, I would this claim be called Super theory of Baby Modula-3 and arrive to the Modula-3 or so language(s) in some handbook of the material (I would kindly ask if so the publication of somebody like Modula3.org/books donation for Modula3 Projects or the part I can get to work without more knowledge).

I hope this can satisfy the need of more tools to start something with that in Modula-3.

Thanks in advance

PS: A genealogy web page could work for that as well, so don't need to copy/paste unneeded stuff 


--- El mi?, 3/8/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 3 de agosto, 2011 19:43
> Hi all:
> just FYI to let you know, and ask if anybody has a copy of
> it [1] how hard  do you thinks it is? See:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=TF5VAAAAMAAJ&q=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&dq=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&hl=en&ei=UMk5Tt69DOLc0QHq3YX8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgU
> 
> The actual book preview at:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Ax2QXEwXhzQC
> 
> Maybe that there are partners on this:
> http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/asmsurv.htm
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> [1] D. A. Schmidt, The structure of typed programming
> languages. MIT Press, 1994.
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 23:08:43 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 22:08:43 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_--f8CNQd-uotTHF82gAK8ci04dUBLsOzPsEY=dTJy8gnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312492123.34824.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand, so there is some place they might put as core like ontological reasoning, or something like that and they need to be expanded to be comprehensive or enough wise).
Thanks in advance

PS if Elego folks don't care I can put a theory web page of it.

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:00


"I would argue that synthethyzing all of this knowledge since it's natural language and matehematical abstraction hard stuff would be worth the value."



why not make a zip file with all the pdfs then?



wouldn't that syntetize it?





On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

I guess there should be some number of literature quite useful as academic bibliography.

If somebody agree for instance to base some of this on theoretical background, but there is a point on it.

Likewise any modern computer compiler is appearing without too much knowledge of its own, some of this may be shared knowledge for instance in the advantage of implementing an improved systematic language, or specific purpose like small-lisp package (I'm obviating thesis languages which are still sometimes common in the sense of academic terms, which reminds me have any one tried m3loader for instance for such an environment in DEC-SRC M3?), anything else is just spurious for this analysis.



I would argue that synthethyzing all of this knowledge since it's natural language and matehematical abstraction hard stuff would be worth the value.



Basically the most material I have found is on:

Abadi-Cardelli logic

Abadi-Cardelli Applications (GIS, etc)

Abadi-Cardelli Further developments



Abadi-Plotkin logic

Abadi-Plotkin formulae reasoning

Abadi-Plotkin + other's descriptions



Abadi-Leino ESC system Ecstatic

Abadi-Leino ESC technological improvements



And finally I would make an improvement on logically synthesize both mathematically and structurally to its bare roots and develop a prototype of it, perhaps M3Fsub or baby Modula-3 or anything any one would want or dare to observe in that way.





Similarly a improved theoretical background is needed as I can see for the whole project, for instance claim we achieved of certain subsets of the language properties of no-RT errors, correctness, etc, I would this claim be called Super theory of Baby Modula-3 and arrive to the Modula-3 or so language(s) in some handbook of the material (I would kindly ask if so the publication of somebody like Modula3.org/books donation for Modula3 Projects or the part I can get to work without more knowledge).





I hope this can satisfy the need of more tools to start something with that in Modula-3.



Thanks in advance



PS: A genealogy web page could work for that as well, so don't need to copy/paste unneeded stuff





--- El mi?, 3/8/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 3 de agosto, 2011 19:43

> Hi all:

> just FYI to let you know, and ask if anybody has a copy of

> it [1] how hard  do you thinks it is? See:

> http://books.google.com/books?id=TF5VAAAAMAAJ&q=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&dq=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&hl=en&ei=UMk5Tt69DOLc0QHq3YX8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgU



>

> The actual book preview at:

> http://books.google.com/books?id=Ax2QXEwXhzQC

>

> Maybe that there are partners on this:

> http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/asmsurv.htm

>

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> [1] D. A. Schmidt, The structure of typed programming

> languages. MIT Press, 1994.

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/1e067ddd/attachment-0001.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 23:36:07 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 22:36:07 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_zjOyuWbDNNP=GeF9CbOWzD9fwQdsujJYNwLp=QYnb7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312493767.83355.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:

Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.

Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?

Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,



I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/0cfe0ffc/attachment-0001.html>

From felipevaldez at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 23:52:30 2011
From: felipevaldez at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:52:30 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <1312493767.83355.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_zjOyuWbDNNP=GeF9CbOWzD9fwQdsujJYNwLp=QYnb7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1312493767.83355.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_-96-MbbT-oD6iJ2e1rA+q9+at8ACRC-DfBo2S-NpC6qRg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
> this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is
> need of this indeed in science, see [1]:
>
>

what are their names?



> Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of
> this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and
> do it.
>
> Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth
> the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care
> as an adult that as well?
>
>

no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.




> Thanks in advance
>
> [1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School
> Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.
>
>
> --- El *jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>* escribi?:
>
>
> De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
> Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
> dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
> That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially
> diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't
> know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,
>
>
>
> I'm sure it's "worth the value".
>
> let me know when you get real clients.
>
>


-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/189b9def/attachment-0001.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Aug  5 00:39:01 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 23:39:01 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-96-MbbT-oD6iJ2e1rA+q9+at8ACRC-DfBo2S-NpC6qRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312497541.24539.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I don't know if you don't but I have met many real philosophical clients. This guys are the most extreme and useful thinkers of the entire world, they should be known AFAIK philosophical schools, one of them says, say Euclid (see his postulates), see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

If you care about this matters then you are in the right wing I mean in the good point if I may say so,  I give you back this answer, the set of this philosophical thinkers are bounded by the amount of schools teaching geometry in their schools.

If you can count them, I think you are a great mathematician as I believe you are, and I'm not even as smart as you I think you can solve it.
Thanks in advance


PS I know of a local renown mathematician late Chaves who won a Presidental medal, who used to assist to calculus conferences, once he answered what the conference speaker must answer and he got it right, but not the guy in there. I assume somebody must have a test that's why I give you back the answer, if so please answer it. But I give you my clue [1]

[1] S. R. Lele and J. T. Richtsmeier, An Invariant Approach to Statistical Analysis of Shapes, 1st ed. Chapman and Hall/CRC, 2001.


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:52



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:





what are their names?
 

Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.



Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?





no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.

 

Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.



--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez
 <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:






Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,





I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/ce92d529/attachment-0001.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Aug  5 00:58:05 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 23:58:05 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_--AyGZHLEpW1CxZpdt-5er4za6FaOe55hmkCnpNRa48dA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312498685.25311.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
but that's somehow unfair without previous knowledge I mean,
I don't know your real clients of that thing, if that's what you are
asking for. This is somehow a paradox, don't you think? Undesired by
too many this days I believe.
For instance, you can't count on the fifth parallel postulate of Euclid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_postulate

That's why I ask you can prove an converse axiom such as find a problem where you can solve and transform that into that other former problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playfair%27s_axiom

Thanks in advance


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 17:43

I'd rather have "paying" clients, than "hypothetical" ones, do you know what I mean? $$$




On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
I don't know if you don't but I have met many real philosophical clients. This guys are the most extreme and useful thinkers of the entire world, they should be known AFAIK philosophical schools, one of them says, say Euclid (see his postulates), see:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

If you care about this matters then you are in the right wing I mean in the good point if I may say so,  I give you back this answer, the set of this philosophical thinkers are bounded by the amount of schools teaching geometry in their schools.



If you can count them, I think you are a great mathematician as I believe you are, and I'm not even as smart as you I think you can solve it.
Thanks in advance


PS I know of a local renown mathematician late Chaves who won a Presidental medal, who used to assist to calculus
 conferences, once he answered what the conference speaker must answer and he got it right, but not the guy in there. I assume somebody must have a test that's why I give you back the answer, if so please answer it. But I give you my clue [1]



[1] S. R. Lele and J. T. Richtsmeier, An Invariant Approach to Statistical Analysis of Shapes, 1st ed. Chapman and Hall/CRC, 2001.


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>


Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:52



On Thu, Aug 4,
 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:




Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:





what are their names?
 





Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.



Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?







no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.

 





Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.



--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:





De: felipe valdez
 <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>




Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:










Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,







I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunter

Casa: 8043901






-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/815d01b9/attachment-0001.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Aug  5 03:58:55 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 02:58:55 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-8_iBaRzJyMD=Zd1cn4QBf51nZdoYNJZcWFzP6+3GWrGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312509535.15691.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Let me tell you and know something about my little economicssupport knowledge, there is by no means an obvious and profitable of doing everything, but ure one way exists for doing so fairly: monopolies don't help the world as most of my working knowledge has been it's way through DEC and Universities, but admitedely, there is not just one way of solving those problems (anything else is brain-damaged).
I will give you this references so you may have more to think about that before you give yourself a better idea:
http://www.iacp.dvo.ru/is/publications/E__papers_04-ru-Artemieva.pdf

And just two references of that as well for Modula-3 hard thinkers (being one myself if I may say so):
http://www.cs.rug.nl/~wim/pub/whh217.ps.gz
http://www.cs.rug.nl/~wim/pub/whh233.ps.gz

But there are many others who deserve that tittle, before me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_postulate

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 18:14



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
but that's somehow unfair without previous knowledge I mean,



business is not meant to be fair, it is meant to be profitable.
unless it generates cash, it dies.
such is the world we live in, unfortunately.


how's the job search?
 

 I don't know your real clients of that thing, 
of course, they do not exist.
before you write a single line of code, make sure a contract is signed.


programming without payment, is a waste of time.
 

if that's what you are asking for. This is somehow a paradox, don't you think?

no,


it is a product that didn't have commercial traction of it's competitors (at the time, c, pascal),which both evolved into current commercial endeavours (c++0x, delphi).


  Undesired by too many this days I believe (risks)



yes, every enterprise will have risks, but if you get a client convinced of the Idea, that you are a "safe bet", or at least a "not so risky one", you win.



 

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 17:43

I'd rather have "paying" clients, than "hypothetical" ones, do you know what I mean? $$$






On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:






Hi all:
I don't know if you don't but I have met many real philosophical clients. This guys are the most extreme and useful thinkers of the entire world, they should be known AFAIK philosophical schools, one of them says, say Euclid (see his postulates), see:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

If you care about this matters then you are in the right wing I mean in the good point if I may say so,  I give you back this answer, the set of this philosophical thinkers are bounded by the amount of schools teaching geometry in their schools.





If you can count them, I think you are a great mathematician as I believe you are, and I'm not even as smart as you I think you can solve it.
Thanks in advance


PS I know of a local renown mathematician late Chaves who won a Presidental medal, who used to assist to calculus
 conferences, once he answered what the conference speaker must answer and he got it right, but not the guy in there. I assume somebody must have a test that's why I give you back the answer, if so please answer it. But I give you my clue [1]





[1] S. R. Lele and J. T. Richtsmeier, An Invariant Approach to Statistical Analysis of Shapes, 1st ed. Chapman and Hall/CRC, 2001.


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:





De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>




Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:52



On Thu, Aug 4,
 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:






Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:





what are their names?
 









Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.



Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?









no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.

 









Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.



--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:







De: felipe valdez
 <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>






Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:














Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,









I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunter

Casa: 8043901






-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunter

Casa: 8043901







-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110805/616783a1/attachment-0001.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 17 19:08:06 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:08:06 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] A bigger library for GUI packages
Message-ID: <1313600886.64449.YahooMailClassic@web29702.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I have read about something called Visual Modula something like a Modula-3 Delphi for Object pascal.
If there is interest do you think the best IDE available for that is of Modula-3 server gui akin Gtk/Qt C--, and if so embedded systems like Qttopia,  even more supporting X on Modula-3 seems not very plausible but feasible through distributed C-- and threading, if so, could be a framework to develop embedded, Linux, unix* os, etc, toolkit really multiplatform (Object Model compiled to Modula-3 nevertheless, if so taking advantage of ESC and tools alike).
Something like this:
http://www.google.com/patents/about/6149318_Link_time_and_run_time_error_det.html?id=axgFAAAAEBAJ

What do you think?
Thanks in advance


From dragisha at m3w.org  Wed Aug 17 19:05:55 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:05:55 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
Message-ID: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>

This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.

***
*** runtime error:
***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
***
  VAR
    res: INTEGER;
    sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
                                                         (* ^ elt pointer*)
  BEGIN
    res := 1;
    FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
      res := res * sizes^;
      INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
    END;
    res := res * adef.elementSize;
    res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
    RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
  END OpenArraySize;

OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.

TIA,
dd



From hosking at cs.purdue.edu  Wed Aug 17 21:04:41 2011
From: hosking at cs.purdue.edu (Tony Hosking)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:04:41 -0400
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
Message-ID: <7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>

That suggests a corrupted heap of some kind.
How could an open array ever have negative size?


On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:

> This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.
> 
> ***
> *** runtime error:
> ***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
> ***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
> ***
> VAR
>   res: INTEGER;
>   sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
>                                                        (* ^ elt pointer*)
> BEGIN
>   res := 1;
>   FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
>     res := res * sizes^;
>     INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
>   END;
>   res := res * adef.elementSize;
>   res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
>   RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
> END OpenArraySize;
> 
> OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.
> 
> TIA,
> dd
> 



From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 17 22:34:19 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:34:19 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <1313613259.53545.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
if there is soe assumpution like:
http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cm3/doc/help/gen_html/m3front/src/types/OpenArrayType.m3.html


Since it's an UNSAFE MODULE I guess enough sanity checks are not there or not enough for that to happen, (a type error or the message "CM3 restriction: open array elements must be byte-aligned")
So, does the collector assume that or it just ignore the "restriction", sort of lifting it or such. Or this is just a small commentary out of place?

Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 17/8/11, Tony Hosking <hosking at cs.purdue.edu> escribi?:

> De: Tony Hosking <hosking at cs.purdue.edu>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
> Para: "Dragi?a Duri?" <dragisha at m3w.org>
> CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 17 de agosto, 2011 14:04
> That suggests a corrupted heap of
> some kind.
> How could an open array ever have negative size?
> 
> 
> On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
> 
> > This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both,
> on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same
> pint, but same place in RTCollector.
> > 
> > ***
> > *** runtime error:
> > ***    An enumeration or subrange value was
> out of range.
> > ***    file
> "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
> > ***
> > VAR
> >   res: INTEGER;
> >   sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h +
> ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
> >               
>                
>                
>         (* ^ elt pointer*)
> > BEGIN
> >   res := 1;
> >   FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1
> DO
> >     res := res * sizes^;
> >     INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
> >   END;
> >   res := res * adef.elementSize;
> >   res := RTMisc.Upper(res +
> adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
> >   RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
> > END OpenArraySize;
> > 
> > OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is
> important in any way.
> > 
> > TIA,
> > dd
> > 
> 
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 17 23:48:08 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:48:08 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] A bigger library for GUI packages
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_rOWZ=gBHtNom1UaX9d=kLWDn2pGnuKEbUh5227mmceA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1313617688.68382.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi:
I agree on such web apps, if you see there isn't anything more than CM3-IDE but if so, I would want to play with web forms in a sense like reactive objects, then computation model is somehow different of what Modula-3 was supposed to do in its time, systems programming to make web applications or cloud programming, it could be fun project and I think there is a project on that, but again, it should be software to do with an application programmer than with a systems programmer, I felt in the latter category long ago, I can't seeing myself written Java applets for living (I know some might do that anyway), I mean, you loose both sides of the programming arena, in one easy propagation of changes in Modules, and in the other side you sort of have the same restrictions of the former (Java or JS are a kind of lacking of that I believe if I may say so), but you need somehow light weight system (a small JVM for instance could be of good use) or a microkernel
 but ...
Anyway it could be a good task for a philosopher to think about that, there was somework on the Vantage project in SUN, but then theyy made a mistake made some small computers with JVM chips but this were quickly displaced by x86 family.
I guess your suggestion is something like that, isn't it? A distributed application like for small businesses and something with special value for all mases is pretty hard, given the market trends a new product for the masses is better a new product for a small business oriented system. However I still think there are many years to go from the Business model to the Masses model you think that's near at least in the SUN times it wasn't now I don't know, it might true as well both can coexist if such day comes then it's a new design for the masses what is wanting for the thing I guess is where you want to be, I feel your perspective is although present I don't know how much near of the reality of every day life. I hope is not though.
Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 17/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] A bigger library for GUI packages
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 17 de agosto, 2011 12:20



On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

I have read about something called Visual Modula something like a Modula-3 Delphi for Object pascal.

If there is interest do you think the best IDE available for that is of Modula-3 server gui akin Gtk/Qt C--, 
the desktop is dead, better search for a cgi replacement.create te user interfaces in html, interact via the browser.

this gives you flexibility, portability and nicer windows and stuff, with a lot less work.if you want to run the app locally, you can have it run at localhost on a given port.many apps do this already (mantis, webmin, etc).


 and if so embedded systems like Qttopia,  even more supporting X on Modula-3 seems not very plausible but feasible through distributed C-- and threading, if so, could be a framework to develop embedded, Linux, unix* os, etc, toolkit really multiplatform (Object Model compiled to Modula-3 nevertheless, if so taking advantage of ESC and tools alike).



Something like this:

http://www.google.com/patents/about/6149318_Link_time_and_run_time_error_det.html?id=axgFAAAAEBAJ





What do you think?

I think the web is the future, search for html generation frameworks in m3 or make it yourself, if you are so-inclined.
no?



 
Thanks in advance




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110817/d9e1e70c/attachment-0001.html>

From dragisha at m3w.org  Thu Aug 18 09:48:26 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:48:26 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>

It happens with same code on three platforms and two versions... I can
send you my source to try to debug it - m3gdb frustrates me a lot these
days... 

Is it working at all? Or maybe on some of my platforms it is worth a
try? (m3gdb)

TIA,
dd

On Wed, 2011-08-17 at 15:04 -0400, Tony Hosking wrote:
> That suggests a corrupted heap of some kind.
> How could an open array ever have negative size?
> 
> 
> On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
> 
> > This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.
> > 
> > ***
> > *** runtime error:
> > ***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
> > ***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
> > ***
> > VAR
> >   res: INTEGER;
> >   sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
> >                                                        (* ^ elt pointer*)
> > BEGIN
> >   res := 1;
> >   FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
> >     res := res * sizes^;
> >     INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
> >   END;
> >   res := res * adef.elementSize;
> >   res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
> >   RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
> > END OpenArraySize;
> > 
> > OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.
> > 
> > TIA,
> > dd
> > 
> 

-- 
Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org>



From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop  Fri Aug 19 00:49:17 2011
From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 17:49:17 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
	<1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>
Message-ID: <4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>



On 08/18/2011 02:48 AM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
> It happens with same code on three platforms and two versions... I can
> send you my source to try to debug it - m3gdb frustrates me a lot these
> days...
>
> Is it working at all? Or maybe on some of my platforms it is worth a
> try? (m3gdb)

It works to a considerable extent for me when compiling using the release
compiler, on LINUXLIBC6 and AMD64_LINUX.  The head compiler just about
completely breaks m3gdb.  Someone took all the types out of the generated
debug information and it cripples m3gdb.  I have been planning to put it
back in "real soon" for some time.

With the head compiler, there are still entirely too many bugs and things
not implemented, but a lot works.  Especially, method and procedure calls
typed in m3gdb commands mostly work, which opens up a lot of possibilities,
e.g., calling a no-side-effects procedure again that you stopped just after
and want to know what happened inside it.

Also, you call type calls on lots of procedures in the RTS.  You could, for
example, call OpenArraySize, which looks like a pure function, lots of times,
with varying parameters.  Sort of a limited Modula-3 interpreter.

Of course, you need to have compiled the RTS with debug info to do very much
meaningful breaking/stepping, etc. inside the procedure you call.  Even without,
you can see if it crashes or what value it returns.

>
> TIA,
> dd
>
> On Wed, 2011-08-17 at 15:04 -0400, Tony Hosking wrote:
>> That suggests a corrupted heap of some kind.
>> How could an open array ever have negative size?
>>
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
>>
>>> This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.
>>>
>>> ***
>>> *** runtime error:
>>> ***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
>>> ***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
>>> ***
>>> VAR
>>>    res: INTEGER;
>>>    sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
>>>                                                         (* ^ elt pointer*)
>>> BEGIN
>>>    res := 1;
>>>    FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
>>>      res := res * sizes^;
>>>      INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
>>>    END;
>>>    res := res * adef.elementSize;
>>>    res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
>>>    RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
>>> END OpenArraySize;
>>>
>>> OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>> dd
>>>
>>
>


From jay.krell at cornell.edu  Fri Aug 19 00:57:41 2011
From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:57:41 +0000
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>,
	<1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>,
	<4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>
Message-ID: <COL101-W59D403A54D0EF469CE2C6BE62B0@phx.gbl>


> compiler, on LINUXLIBC6 and AMD64_LINUX.  The head compiler just about
> completely breaks m3gdb.  Someone took all the types out of the generated
> debug information and it cripples m3gdb.  I have been planning to put it
> back in "real soon" for some time.

 That was not my intent.
 And should be easy to fix. 

 
 - Jay

 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110818/5309d779/attachment-0001.html>

From dragisha at m3w.org  Fri Aug 19 08:10:02 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:10:02 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <COL101-W59D403A54D0EF469CE2C6BE62B0@phx.gbl>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>,
	<1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>,
	<4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>
	<COL101-W59D403A54D0EF469CE2C6BE62B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <041B195B-C600-444F-B80E-EC23D73B629E@m3w.org>

Early in the morning and all? But - Yay, does this mean we can expect this in working condition soon?

Rodney, so - my best route for the moment would be 5.8.6-REL on AMD64_LINUX? 

TIA,
dd

On Aug 19, 2011, at 12:57 AM, Jay K wrote:

> > compiler, on LINUXLIBC6 and AMD64_LINUX. The head compiler just about
> > completely breaks m3gdb. Someone took all the types out of the generated
> > debug information and it cripples m3gdb. I have been planning to put it
> > back in "real soon" for some time.
> 
>  That was not my intent.
>  And should be easy to fix. 
> 
>  
>  - Jay

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110819/73e50275/attachment-0001.html>

From dragisha at m3w.org  Sat Aug 20 20:40:26 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 20:40:26 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
Message-ID: <1D0DC2EC-63DA-4D50-9FA9-E8256A2803BF@m3w.org>

"../src/ArcGrid.m3", line 28: LOOPHOLE: expression's size differs from type's

PROCEDURE SwapFloat(f: REAL): REAL =
  BEGIN
    RETURN LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of course :)
  END SwapFloat;

BITSIZE is 32 for both.

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sun Aug 21 00:27:52 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 23:27:52 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
In-Reply-To: <1D0DC2EC-63DA-4D50-9FA9-E8256A2803BF@m3w.org>
Message-ID: <1313879272.69576.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I think this is just a failed check (an over check) of what it is suppose to think, is better to assert type errors than false execution ill-behavior (since this is not the case) one's assumption may be over checked, and thus you get the type error (otherwise you would like need some to think like this, I'm not against it just that, but this is pure dreams in one big head):
http://www.dorje.com/netstuff/jokes/prog.smurf

http://venus.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/amo/AMO-Berlin/index.html

If you see it's akind of what you would want, type safe checking of C C++ superset of it with Obliq-like language. It's written in Gnu C. It's JIT

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 20/8/11, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> escribi?:

> De: Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org>
> Asunto: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
> Para: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> Fecha: s?bado, 20 de agosto, 2011 13:40
> "../src/ArcGrid.m3", line 28:
> LOOPHOLE: expression's size differs from type's
> 
> PROCEDURE SwapFloat(f: REAL): REAL =
>   BEGIN
>     RETURN LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f,
> Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of course :)
>   END SwapFloat;
> 
> BITSIZE is 32 for both.


From felipevaldez at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 05:26:09 2011
From: felipevaldez at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 22:26:09 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
In-Reply-To: <1313879272.69576.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <1D0DC2EC-63DA-4D50-9FA9-E8256A2803BF@m3w.org>
	<1313879272.69576.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_-_kw9=Y9jiFWD0F4Bx_K7g1Pn21pLo643L0Hkp7ndVhjg@mail.gmail.com>

maybe:

print(typeof(expression))

for each of these expressions:

1. LOOPHOLE(DUMMY_VAR, REAL);

2. NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned))

3. LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned)

4. LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of
course :)


is there a typeof operator in modula3, or a typeid operator in modula3?



On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
> I think this is just a failed check (an over check) of what it is suppose
> to think, is better to assert type errors than false execution ill-behavior
> (since this is not the case) one's assumption may be over checked, and thus
> you get the type error (otherwise you would like need some to think like
> this, I'm not against it just that, but this is pure dreams in one big
> head):
> http://www.dorje.com/netstuff/jokes/prog.smurf
>
> http://venus.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/amo/AMO-Berlin/index.html
>
> If you see it's akind of what you would want, type safe checking of C C++
> superset of it with Obliq-like language. It's written in Gnu C. It's JIT
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El s?b, 20/8/11, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> escribi?:
>
> > De: Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org>
> > Asunto: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
> > Para: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> > Fecha: s?bado, 20 de agosto, 2011 13:40
> > "../src/ArcGrid.m3", line 28:
> > LOOPHOLE: expression's size differs from type's
> >
> > PROCEDURE SwapFloat(f: REAL): REAL =
> >   BEGIN
> >     RETURN LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f,
> > Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of course :)
> >   END SwapFloat;
> >
> > BITSIZE is 32 for both.
>



-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110821/ebe99f17/attachment-0001.html>

From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop  Mon Aug 29 17:59:08 2011
From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:59:08 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] test 2
Message-ID: <4E5BB74C.1020304@lcwb.coop>

Test 2



From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop  Tue Aug 30 17:10:31 2011
From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 10:10:31 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
Message-ID: <4E5CFD67.3060408@lcwb.coop>

My posts to this list are usually getting stopped by my ISP's being blacklisted.
Here is about the 4th try:

On 08/19/2011 01:10 AM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
 > Early in the morning and all? But - Yay, does this mean we can expect this in working condition soon?
 >
 > Rodney, so - my best route for the moment would be 5.8.6-REL on AMD64_LINUX?

Yes.


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 02:43:17 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 01:43:17 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Message-ID: <1312418597.70691.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
just FYI to let you know, and ask if anybody has a copy of it [1] how hard  do you thinks it is? See:
http://books.google.com/books?id=TF5VAAAAMAAJ&q=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&dq=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&hl=en&ei=UMk5Tt69DOLc0QHq3YX8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgU

The actual book preview at:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ax2QXEwXhzQC

Maybe that there are partners on this:
http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/asmsurv.htm


Thanks in advance

[1] D. A. Schmidt, The structure of typed programming languages. MIT Press, 1994.


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 22:53:16 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 21:53:16 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <1312418597.70691.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1312491196.95925.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I guess there should be some number of literature quite useful as academic bibliography.
If somebody agree for instance to base some of this on theoretical background, but there is a point on it.
Likewise any modern computer compiler is appearing without too much knowledge of its own, some of this may be shared knowledge for instance in the advantage of implementing an improved systematic language, or specific purpose like small-lisp package (I'm obviating thesis languages which are still sometimes common in the sense of academic terms, which reminds me have any one tried m3loader for instance for such an environment in DEC-SRC M3?), anything else is just spurious for this analysis.
I would argue that synthethyzing all of this knowledge since it's natural language and matehematical abstraction hard stuff would be worth the value.

Basically the most material I have found is on:
Abadi-Cardelli logic
Abadi-Cardelli Applications (GIS, etc) 
Abadi-Cardelli Further developments

Abadi-Plotkin logic
Abadi-Plotkin formulae reasoning
Abadi-Plotkin + other's descriptions

Abadi-Leino ESC system Ecstatic
Abadi-Leino ESC technological improvements

And finally I would make an improvement on logically synthesize both mathematically and structurally to its bare roots and develop a prototype of it, perhaps M3Fsub or baby Modula-3 or anything any one would want or dare to observe in that way.

Similarly a improved theoretical background is needed as I can see for the whole project, for instance claim we achieved of certain subsets of the language properties of no-RT errors, correctness, etc, I would this claim be called Super theory of Baby Modula-3 and arrive to the Modula-3 or so language(s) in some handbook of the material (I would kindly ask if so the publication of somebody like Modula3.org/books donation for Modula3 Projects or the part I can get to work without more knowledge).

I hope this can satisfy the need of more tools to start something with that in Modula-3.

Thanks in advance

PS: A genealogy web page could work for that as well, so don't need to copy/paste unneeded stuff 


--- El mi?, 3/8/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 3 de agosto, 2011 19:43
> Hi all:
> just FYI to let you know, and ask if anybody has a copy of
> it [1] how hard  do you thinks it is? See:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=TF5VAAAAMAAJ&q=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&dq=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&hl=en&ei=UMk5Tt69DOLc0QHq3YX8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgU
> 
> The actual book preview at:
> http://books.google.com/books?id=Ax2QXEwXhzQC
> 
> Maybe that there are partners on this:
> http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/asmsurv.htm
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> [1] D. A. Schmidt, The structure of typed programming
> languages. MIT Press, 1994.
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 23:08:43 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 22:08:43 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_--f8CNQd-uotTHF82gAK8ci04dUBLsOzPsEY=dTJy8gnA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312492123.34824.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand, so there is some place they might put as core like ontological reasoning, or something like that and they need to be expanded to be comprehensive or enough wise).
Thanks in advance

PS if Elego folks don't care I can put a theory web page of it.

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:00


"I would argue that synthethyzing all of this knowledge since it's natural language and matehematical abstraction hard stuff would be worth the value."



why not make a zip file with all the pdfs then?



wouldn't that syntetize it?





On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

I guess there should be some number of literature quite useful as academic bibliography.

If somebody agree for instance to base some of this on theoretical background, but there is a point on it.

Likewise any modern computer compiler is appearing without too much knowledge of its own, some of this may be shared knowledge for instance in the advantage of implementing an improved systematic language, or specific purpose like small-lisp package (I'm obviating thesis languages which are still sometimes common in the sense of academic terms, which reminds me have any one tried m3loader for instance for such an environment in DEC-SRC M3?), anything else is just spurious for this analysis.



I would argue that synthethyzing all of this knowledge since it's natural language and matehematical abstraction hard stuff would be worth the value.



Basically the most material I have found is on:

Abadi-Cardelli logic

Abadi-Cardelli Applications (GIS, etc)

Abadi-Cardelli Further developments



Abadi-Plotkin logic

Abadi-Plotkin formulae reasoning

Abadi-Plotkin + other's descriptions



Abadi-Leino ESC system Ecstatic

Abadi-Leino ESC technological improvements



And finally I would make an improvement on logically synthesize both mathematically and structurally to its bare roots and develop a prototype of it, perhaps M3Fsub or baby Modula-3 or anything any one would want or dare to observe in that way.





Similarly a improved theoretical background is needed as I can see for the whole project, for instance claim we achieved of certain subsets of the language properties of no-RT errors, correctness, etc, I would this claim be called Super theory of Baby Modula-3 and arrive to the Modula-3 or so language(s) in some handbook of the material (I would kindly ask if so the publication of somebody like Modula3.org/books donation for Modula3 Projects or the part I can get to work without more knowledge).





I hope this can satisfy the need of more tools to start something with that in Modula-3.



Thanks in advance



PS: A genealogy web page could work for that as well, so don't need to copy/paste unneeded stuff





--- El mi?, 3/8/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 3 de agosto, 2011 19:43

> Hi all:

> just FYI to let you know, and ask if anybody has a copy of

> it [1] how hard  do you thinks it is? See:

> http://books.google.com/books?id=TF5VAAAAMAAJ&q=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&dq=%22lambda+calculus+and+type+theory,%22&hl=en&ei=UMk5Tt69DOLc0QHq3YX8Aw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwADgU



>

> The actual book preview at:

> http://books.google.com/books?id=Ax2QXEwXhzQC

>

> Maybe that there are partners on this:

> http://www.coe.montana.edu/ee/cady/asmsurv.htm

>

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> [1] D. A. Schmidt, The structure of typed programming

> languages. MIT Press, 1994.

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/1e067ddd/attachment-0002.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Aug  4 23:36:07 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 22:36:07 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_zjOyuWbDNNP=GeF9CbOWzD9fwQdsujJYNwLp=QYnb7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312493767.83355.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:

Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.

Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?

Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,



I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/0cfe0ffc/attachment-0002.html>

From felipevaldez at gmail.com  Thu Aug  4 23:52:30 2011
From: felipevaldez at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 16:52:30 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <1312493767.83355.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_zjOyuWbDNNP=GeF9CbOWzD9fwQdsujJYNwLp=QYnb7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1312493767.83355.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_-96-MbbT-oD6iJ2e1rA+q9+at8ACRC-DfBo2S-NpC6qRg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
> this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is
> need of this indeed in science, see [1]:
>
>

what are their names?



> Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of
> this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and
> do it.
>
> Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth
> the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care
> as an adult that as well?
>
>

no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.




> Thanks in advance
>
> [1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School
> Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.
>
>
> --- El *jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>* escribi?:
>
>
> De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
> Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
> dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
> That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially
> diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't
> know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,
>
>
>
> I'm sure it's "worth the value".
>
> let me know when you get real clients.
>
>


-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/189b9def/attachment-0002.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Aug  5 00:39:01 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 23:39:01 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-96-MbbT-oD6iJ2e1rA+q9+at8ACRC-DfBo2S-NpC6qRg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312497541.24539.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I don't know if you don't but I have met many real philosophical clients. This guys are the most extreme and useful thinkers of the entire world, they should be known AFAIK philosophical schools, one of them says, say Euclid (see his postulates), see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

If you care about this matters then you are in the right wing I mean in the good point if I may say so,  I give you back this answer, the set of this philosophical thinkers are bounded by the amount of schools teaching geometry in their schools.

If you can count them, I think you are a great mathematician as I believe you are, and I'm not even as smart as you I think you can solve it.
Thanks in advance


PS I know of a local renown mathematician late Chaves who won a Presidental medal, who used to assist to calculus conferences, once he answered what the conference speaker must answer and he got it right, but not the guy in there. I assume somebody must have a test that's why I give you back the answer, if so please answer it. But I give you my clue [1]

[1] S. R. Lele and J. T. Richtsmeier, An Invariant Approach to Statistical Analysis of Shapes, 1st ed. Chapman and Hall/CRC, 2001.


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:52



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:





what are their names?
 

Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.



Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?





no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.

 

Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.



--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez
 <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:






Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,





I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/ce92d529/attachment-0002.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Aug  5 00:58:05 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 23:58:05 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_--AyGZHLEpW1CxZpdt-5er4za6FaOe55hmkCnpNRa48dA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312498685.25311.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
but that's somehow unfair without previous knowledge I mean,
I don't know your real clients of that thing, if that's what you are
asking for. This is somehow a paradox, don't you think? Undesired by
too many this days I believe.
For instance, you can't count on the fifth parallel postulate of Euclid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_postulate

That's why I ask you can prove an converse axiom such as find a problem where you can solve and transform that into that other former problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playfair%27s_axiom

Thanks in advance


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 17:43

I'd rather have "paying" clients, than "hypothetical" ones, do you know what I mean? $$$




On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
I don't know if you don't but I have met many real philosophical clients. This guys are the most extreme and useful thinkers of the entire world, they should be known AFAIK philosophical schools, one of them says, say Euclid (see his postulates), see:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

If you care about this matters then you are in the right wing I mean in the good point if I may say so,  I give you back this answer, the set of this philosophical thinkers are bounded by the amount of schools teaching geometry in their schools.



If you can count them, I think you are a great mathematician as I believe you are, and I'm not even as smart as you I think you can solve it.
Thanks in advance


PS I know of a local renown mathematician late Chaves who won a Presidental medal, who used to assist to calculus
 conferences, once he answered what the conference speaker must answer and he got it right, but not the guy in there. I assume somebody must have a test that's why I give you back the answer, if so please answer it. But I give you my clue [1]



[1] S. R. Lele and J. T. Richtsmeier, An Invariant Approach to Statistical Analysis of Shapes, 1st ed. Chapman and Hall/CRC, 2001.


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>


Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:52



On Thu, Aug 4,
 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:




Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:





what are their names?
 





Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.



Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?







no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.

 





Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.



--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:





De: felipe valdez
 <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>




Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:










Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,







I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunter

Casa: 8043901






-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901




-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110804/815d01b9/attachment-0002.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Aug  5 03:58:55 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 5 Aug 2011 02:58:55 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-8_iBaRzJyMD=Zd1cn4QBf51nZdoYNJZcWFzP6+3GWrGw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1312509535.15691.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Let me tell you and know something about my little economicssupport knowledge, there is by no means an obvious and profitable of doing everything, but ure one way exists for doing so fairly: monopolies don't help the world as most of my working knowledge has been it's way through DEC and Universities, but admitedely, there is not just one way of solving those problems (anything else is brain-damaged).
I will give you this references so you may have more to think about that before you give yourself a better idea:
http://www.iacp.dvo.ru/is/publications/E__papers_04-ru-Artemieva.pdf

And just two references of that as well for Modula-3 hard thinkers (being one myself if I may say so):
http://www.cs.rug.nl/~wim/pub/whh217.ps.gz
http://www.cs.rug.nl/~wim/pub/whh233.ps.gz

But there are many others who deserve that tittle, before me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_postulate

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 18:14



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:50 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
but that's somehow unfair without previous knowledge I mean,



business is not meant to be fair, it is meant to be profitable.
unless it generates cash, it dies.
such is the world we live in, unfortunately.


how's the job search?
 

 I don't know your real clients of that thing, 
of course, they do not exist.
before you write a single line of code, make sure a contract is signed.


programming without payment, is a waste of time.
 

if that's what you are asking for. This is somehow a paradox, don't you think?

no,


it is a product that didn't have commercial traction of it's competitors (at the time, c, pascal),which both evolved into current commercial endeavours (c++0x, delphi).


  Undesired by too many this days I believe (risks)



yes, every enterprise will have risks, but if you get a client convinced of the Idea, that you are a "safe bet", or at least a "not so risky one", you win.



 

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 17:43

I'd rather have "paying" clients, than "hypothetical" ones, do you know what I mean? $$$






On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:






Hi all:
I don't know if you don't but I have met many real philosophical clients. This guys are the most extreme and useful thinkers of the entire world, they should be known AFAIK philosophical schools, one of them says, say Euclid (see his postulates), see:




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclidean_geometry

If you care about this matters then you are in the right wing I mean in the good point if I may say so,  I give you back this answer, the set of this philosophical thinkers are bounded by the amount of schools teaching geometry in their schools.





If you can count them, I think you are a great mathematician as I believe you are, and I'm not even as smart as you I think you can solve it.
Thanks in advance


PS I know of a local renown mathematician late Chaves who won a Presidental medal, who used to assist to calculus
 conferences, once he answered what the conference speaker must answer and he got it right, but not the guy in there. I assume somebody must have a test that's why I give you back the answer, if so please answer it. But I give you my clue [1]





[1] S. R. Lele and J. T. Richtsmeier, An Invariant Approach to Statistical Analysis of Shapes, 1st ed. Chapman and Hall/CRC, 2001.


--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:





De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>




Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com


Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:52



On Thu, Aug 4,
 2011 at 4:36 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:






Hi all:
this are clients in need of good ontological needs, for instance there is need of this indeed in science, see [1]:





what are their names?
 









Then it's quite obvious you need to assume the reality behind the mask of this, if don't care, then it is a matter of time when somebody will can and do it.



Again this is beyond what you can care about most of us, but indeed worth the value but could nevertheless be useful if I may say so. Don't you care as an adult that as well?









no, just as in every other topic, I care as a little girl, obviously.

 









Thanks in advance

[1] W.-M. Roth, Geometry as Objective Science in Elementary School Classrooms: Mathematics in the Flesh, 1st ed. Routledge, 2011.



--- El jue, 4/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:







De: felipe valdez
 <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Baby Modula-3 type theory books
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>






Fecha: jueves, 4 de agosto, 2011 16:23



On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:














Hi all:
That's cool for now meanwhile the gross of it can be substantially diminished (I can optimize in such a way, but in terms of reasoning I don't know, for instance languages like Juno-2 are worth the value to expand,









I'm sure it's "worth the value".
let me know when you get real clients.




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunter

Casa: 8043901






-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunter

Casa: 8043901







-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110805/616783a1/attachment-0002.html>

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 17 19:08:06 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 18:08:06 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] A bigger library for GUI packages
Message-ID: <1313600886.64449.YahooMailClassic@web29702.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I have read about something called Visual Modula something like a Modula-3 Delphi for Object pascal.
If there is interest do you think the best IDE available for that is of Modula-3 server gui akin Gtk/Qt C--, and if so embedded systems like Qttopia,  even more supporting X on Modula-3 seems not very plausible but feasible through distributed C-- and threading, if so, could be a framework to develop embedded, Linux, unix* os, etc, toolkit really multiplatform (Object Model compiled to Modula-3 nevertheless, if so taking advantage of ESC and tools alike).
Something like this:
http://www.google.com/patents/about/6149318_Link_time_and_run_time_error_det.html?id=axgFAAAAEBAJ

What do you think?
Thanks in advance


From dragisha at m3w.org  Wed Aug 17 19:05:55 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 19:05:55 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
Message-ID: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>

This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.

***
*** runtime error:
***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
***
  VAR
    res: INTEGER;
    sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
                                                         (* ^ elt pointer*)
  BEGIN
    res := 1;
    FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
      res := res * sizes^;
      INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
    END;
    res := res * adef.elementSize;
    res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
    RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
  END OpenArraySize;

OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.

TIA,
dd



From hosking at cs.purdue.edu  Wed Aug 17 21:04:41 2011
From: hosking at cs.purdue.edu (Tony Hosking)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:04:41 -0400
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
Message-ID: <7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>

That suggests a corrupted heap of some kind.
How could an open array ever have negative size?


On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:

> This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.
> 
> ***
> *** runtime error:
> ***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
> ***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
> ***
> VAR
>   res: INTEGER;
>   sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
>                                                        (* ^ elt pointer*)
> BEGIN
>   res := 1;
>   FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
>     res := res * sizes^;
>     INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
>   END;
>   res := res * adef.elementSize;
>   res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
>   RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
> END OpenArraySize;
> 
> OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.
> 
> TIA,
> dd
> 



From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 17 22:34:19 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 21:34:19 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <1313613259.53545.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
if there is soe assumpution like:
http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cm3/doc/help/gen_html/m3front/src/types/OpenArrayType.m3.html


Since it's an UNSAFE MODULE I guess enough sanity checks are not there or not enough for that to happen, (a type error or the message "CM3 restriction: open array elements must be byte-aligned")
So, does the collector assume that or it just ignore the "restriction", sort of lifting it or such. Or this is just a small commentary out of place?

Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 17/8/11, Tony Hosking <hosking at cs.purdue.edu> escribi?:

> De: Tony Hosking <hosking at cs.purdue.edu>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
> Para: "Dragi?a Duri?" <dragisha at m3w.org>
> CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 17 de agosto, 2011 14:04
> That suggests a corrupted heap of
> some kind.
> How could an open array ever have negative size?
> 
> 
> On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
> 
> > This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both,
> on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same
> pint, but same place in RTCollector.
> > 
> > ***
> > *** runtime error:
> > ***    An enumeration or subrange value was
> out of range.
> > ***    file
> "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
> > ***
> > VAR
> >   res: INTEGER;
> >   sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h +
> ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
> >               
>                
>                
>         (* ^ elt pointer*)
> > BEGIN
> >   res := 1;
> >   FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1
> DO
> >     res := res * sizes^;
> >     INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
> >   END;
> >   res := res * adef.elementSize;
> >   res := RTMisc.Upper(res +
> adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
> >   RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
> > END OpenArraySize;
> > 
> > OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is
> important in any way.
> > 
> > TIA,
> > dd
> > 
> 
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Aug 17 23:48:08 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 22:48:08 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] A bigger library for GUI packages
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_rOWZ=gBHtNom1UaX9d=kLWDn2pGnuKEbUh5227mmceA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1313617688.68382.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi:
I agree on such web apps, if you see there isn't anything more than CM3-IDE but if so, I would want to play with web forms in a sense like reactive objects, then computation model is somehow different of what Modula-3 was supposed to do in its time, systems programming to make web applications or cloud programming, it could be fun project and I think there is a project on that, but again, it should be software to do with an application programmer than with a systems programmer, I felt in the latter category long ago, I can't seeing myself written Java applets for living (I know some might do that anyway), I mean, you loose both sides of the programming arena, in one easy propagation of changes in Modules, and in the other side you sort of have the same restrictions of the former (Java or JS are a kind of lacking of that I believe if I may say so), but you need somehow light weight system (a small JVM for instance could be of good use) or a microkernel
 but ...
Anyway it could be a good task for a philosopher to think about that, there was somework on the Vantage project in SUN, but then theyy made a mistake made some small computers with JVM chips but this were quickly displaced by x86 family.
I guess your suggestion is something like that, isn't it? A distributed application like for small businesses and something with special value for all mases is pretty hard, given the market trends a new product for the masses is better a new product for a small business oriented system. However I still think there are many years to go from the Business model to the Masses model you think that's near at least in the SUN times it wasn't now I don't know, it might true as well both can coexist if such day comes then it's a new design for the masses what is wanting for the thing I guess is where you want to be, I feel your perspective is although present I don't know how much near of the reality of every day life. I hope is not though.
Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 17/8/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] A bigger library for GUI packages
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 17 de agosto, 2011 12:20



On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 12:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

I have read about something called Visual Modula something like a Modula-3 Delphi for Object pascal.

If there is interest do you think the best IDE available for that is of Modula-3 server gui akin Gtk/Qt C--, 
the desktop is dead, better search for a cgi replacement.create te user interfaces in html, interact via the browser.

this gives you flexibility, portability and nicer windows and stuff, with a lot less work.if you want to run the app locally, you can have it run at localhost on a given port.many apps do this already (mantis, webmin, etc).


 and if so embedded systems like Qttopia,  even more supporting X on Modula-3 seems not very plausible but feasible through distributed C-- and threading, if so, could be a framework to develop embedded, Linux, unix* os, etc, toolkit really multiplatform (Object Model compiled to Modula-3 nevertheless, if so taking advantage of ESC and tools alike).



Something like this:

http://www.google.com/patents/about/6149318_Link_time_and_run_time_error_det.html?id=axgFAAAAEBAJ





What do you think?

I think the web is the future, search for html generation frameworks in m3 or make it yourself, if you are so-inclined.
no?



 
Thanks in advance




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110817/d9e1e70c/attachment-0002.html>

From dragisha at m3w.org  Thu Aug 18 09:48:26 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?UTF-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:48:26 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
Message-ID: <1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>

It happens with same code on three platforms and two versions... I can
send you my source to try to debug it - m3gdb frustrates me a lot these
days... 

Is it working at all? Or maybe on some of my platforms it is worth a
try? (m3gdb)

TIA,
dd

On Wed, 2011-08-17 at 15:04 -0400, Tony Hosking wrote:
> That suggests a corrupted heap of some kind.
> How could an open array ever have negative size?
> 
> 
> On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
> 
> > This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.
> > 
> > ***
> > *** runtime error:
> > ***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
> > ***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
> > ***
> > VAR
> >   res: INTEGER;
> >   sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
> >                                                        (* ^ elt pointer*)
> > BEGIN
> >   res := 1;
> >   FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
> >     res := res * sizes^;
> >     INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
> >   END;
> >   res := res * adef.elementSize;
> >   res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
> >   RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
> > END OpenArraySize;
> > 
> > OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.
> > 
> > TIA,
> > dd
> > 
> 

-- 
Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org>



From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop  Fri Aug 19 00:49:17 2011
From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 17:49:17 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>
	<1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>
Message-ID: <4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>



On 08/18/2011 02:48 AM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
> It happens with same code on three platforms and two versions... I can
> send you my source to try to debug it - m3gdb frustrates me a lot these
> days...
>
> Is it working at all? Or maybe on some of my platforms it is worth a
> try? (m3gdb)

It works to a considerable extent for me when compiling using the release
compiler, on LINUXLIBC6 and AMD64_LINUX.  The head compiler just about
completely breaks m3gdb.  Someone took all the types out of the generated
debug information and it cripples m3gdb.  I have been planning to put it
back in "real soon" for some time.

With the head compiler, there are still entirely too many bugs and things
not implemented, but a lot works.  Especially, method and procedure calls
typed in m3gdb commands mostly work, which opens up a lot of possibilities,
e.g., calling a no-side-effects procedure again that you stopped just after
and want to know what happened inside it.

Also, you call type calls on lots of procedures in the RTS.  You could, for
example, call OpenArraySize, which looks like a pure function, lots of times,
with varying parameters.  Sort of a limited Modula-3 interpreter.

Of course, you need to have compiled the RTS with debug info to do very much
meaningful breaking/stepping, etc. inside the procedure you call.  Even without,
you can see if it crashes or what value it returns.

>
> TIA,
> dd
>
> On Wed, 2011-08-17 at 15:04 -0400, Tony Hosking wrote:
>> That suggests a corrupted heap of some kind.
>> How could an open array ever have negative size?
>>
>>
>> On Aug 17, 2011, at 1:05 PM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
>>
>>> This one keeps happening, on 5.8.6-REL and 5.9.0 both, on LINUXLIBC6, AMD64_DARWIN and AMD64_LINUX. Not at same pint, but same place in RTCollector.
>>>
>>> ***
>>> *** runtime error:
>>> ***    An enumeration or subrange value was out of range.
>>> ***    file "../src/runtime/common/RTCollector.m3", line 330
>>> ***
>>> VAR
>>>    res: INTEGER;
>>>    sizes: UNTRACED REF INTEGER := h + ADRSIZE(Header) + ADRSIZE(ADDRESS);
>>>                                                         (* ^ elt pointer*)
>>> BEGIN
>>>    res := 1;
>>>    FOR i := 0 TO adef.nDimensions - 1 DO
>>>      res := res * sizes^;
>>>      INC(sizes, ADRSIZE(sizes^));
>>>    END;
>>>    res := res * adef.elementSize;
>>>    res := RTMisc.Upper(res + adef.common.dataSize, BYTESIZE(Header));
>>>    RETURN res; (* line 330 *)
>>> END OpenArraySize;
>>>
>>> OpenArraySize procedure type is CARDINAL, if it is important in any way.
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>> dd
>>>
>>
>


From jay.krell at cornell.edu  Fri Aug 19 00:57:41 2011
From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K)
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:57:41 +0000
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>,
	<1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>,
	<4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>
Message-ID: <COL101-W59D403A54D0EF469CE2C6BE62B0@phx.gbl>


> compiler, on LINUXLIBC6 and AMD64_LINUX.  The head compiler just about
> completely breaks m3gdb.  Someone took all the types out of the generated
> debug information and it cripples m3gdb.  I have been planning to put it
> back in "real soon" for some time.

 That was not my intent.
 And should be easy to fix. 

 
 - Jay

 		 	   		  
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110818/5309d779/attachment-0002.html>

From dragisha at m3w.org  Fri Aug 19 08:10:02 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:10:02 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
In-Reply-To: <COL101-W59D403A54D0EF469CE2C6BE62B0@phx.gbl>
References: <8742C5A8-B4E3-41AE-9BE0-DF072FBC8A4E@m3w.org>
	<7A736522-B7A4-46C0-8A97-C954FF04F455@cs.purdue.edu>,
	<1313653707.26607.1.camel@boromir.m3w.org>,
	<4E4D96ED.7010506@lcwb.coop>
	<COL101-W59D403A54D0EF469CE2C6BE62B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <041B195B-C600-444F-B80E-EC23D73B629E@m3w.org>

Early in the morning and all? But - Yay, does this mean we can expect this in working condition soon?

Rodney, so - my best route for the moment would be 5.8.6-REL on AMD64_LINUX? 

TIA,
dd

On Aug 19, 2011, at 12:57 AM, Jay K wrote:

> > compiler, on LINUXLIBC6 and AMD64_LINUX. The head compiler just about
> > completely breaks m3gdb. Someone took all the types out of the generated
> > debug information and it cripples m3gdb. I have been planning to put it
> > back in "real soon" for some time.
> 
>  That was not my intent.
>  And should be easy to fix. 
> 
>  
>  - Jay

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110819/73e50275/attachment-0002.html>

From dragisha at m3w.org  Sat Aug 20 20:40:26 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 20:40:26 +0200
Subject: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
Message-ID: <1D0DC2EC-63DA-4D50-9FA9-E8256A2803BF@m3w.org>

"../src/ArcGrid.m3", line 28: LOOPHOLE: expression's size differs from type's

PROCEDURE SwapFloat(f: REAL): REAL =
  BEGIN
    RETURN LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of course :)
  END SwapFloat;

BITSIZE is 32 for both.

From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sun Aug 21 00:27:52 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 23:27:52 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
In-Reply-To: <1D0DC2EC-63DA-4D50-9FA9-E8256A2803BF@m3w.org>
Message-ID: <1313879272.69576.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I think this is just a failed check (an over check) of what it is suppose to think, is better to assert type errors than false execution ill-behavior (since this is not the case) one's assumption may be over checked, and thus you get the type error (otherwise you would like need some to think like this, I'm not against it just that, but this is pure dreams in one big head):
http://www.dorje.com/netstuff/jokes/prog.smurf

http://venus.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/amo/AMO-Berlin/index.html

If you see it's akind of what you would want, type safe checking of C C++ superset of it with Obliq-like language. It's written in Gnu C. It's JIT

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 20/8/11, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> escribi?:

> De: Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org>
> Asunto: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
> Para: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> Fecha: s?bado, 20 de agosto, 2011 13:40
> "../src/ArcGrid.m3", line 28:
> LOOPHOLE: expression's size differs from type's
> 
> PROCEDURE SwapFloat(f: REAL): REAL =
>   BEGIN
>     RETURN LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f,
> Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of course :)
>   END SwapFloat;
> 
> BITSIZE is 32 for both.


From felipevaldez at gmail.com  Mon Aug 22 05:26:09 2011
From: felipevaldez at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2011 22:26:09 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
In-Reply-To: <1313879272.69576.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <1D0DC2EC-63DA-4D50-9FA9-E8256A2803BF@m3w.org>
	<1313879272.69576.YahooMailClassic@web29713.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_-_kw9=Y9jiFWD0F4Bx_K7g1Pn21pLo643L0Hkp7ndVhjg@mail.gmail.com>

maybe:

print(typeof(expression))

for each of these expressions:

1. LOOPHOLE(DUMMY_VAR, REAL);

2. NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned))

3. LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned)

4. LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f, Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of
course :)


is there a typeof operator in modula3, or a typeid operator in modula3?



On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
> I think this is just a failed check (an over check) of what it is suppose
> to think, is better to assert type errors than false execution ill-behavior
> (since this is not the case) one's assumption may be over checked, and thus
> you get the type error (otherwise you would like need some to think like
> this, I'm not against it just that, but this is pure dreams in one big
> head):
> http://www.dorje.com/netstuff/jokes/prog.smurf
>
> http://venus.is.s.u-tokyo.ac.jp/amo/AMO-Berlin/index.html
>
> If you see it's akind of what you would want, type safe checking of C C++
> superset of it with Obliq-like language. It's written in Gnu C. It's JIT
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El s?b, 20/8/11, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> escribi?:
>
> > De: Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org>
> > Asunto: [M3devel] Never ending love with alignments, data sizes et al :)
> > Para: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> > Fecha: s?bado, 20 de agosto, 2011 13:40
> > "../src/ArcGrid.m3", line 28:
> > LOOPHOLE: expression's size differs from type's
> >
> > PROCEDURE SwapFloat(f: REAL): REAL =
> >   BEGIN
> >     RETURN LOOPHOLE(NBOFrom(LOOPHOLE(f,
> > Ctypes.unsigned)), REAL); <- line 28, of course :)
> >   END SwapFloat;
> >
> > BITSIZE is 32 for both.
>



-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://m3lists.elegosoft.com/pipermail/m3devel/attachments/20110821/ebe99f17/attachment-0002.html>

From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop  Mon Aug 29 17:59:08 2011
From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates)
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 10:59:08 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] test 2
Message-ID: <4E5BB74C.1020304@lcwb.coop>

Test 2



From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop  Tue Aug 30 17:10:31 2011
From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates)
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 10:10:31 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] open array allocation problem?
Message-ID: <4E5CFD67.3060408@lcwb.coop>

My posts to this list are usually getting stopped by my ISP's being blacklisted.
Here is about the 4th try:

On 08/19/2011 01:10 AM, Dragi?a Duri? wrote:
 > Early in the morning and all? But - Yay, does this mean we can expect this in working condition soon?
 >
 > Rodney, so - my best route for the moment would be 5.8.6-REL on AMD64_LINUX?

Yes.