From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sat Dec  3 22:58:53 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 21:58:53 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Message-ID: <1322949533.85703.YahooMailClassic@web29709.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf

 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.

Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.

I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).

If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).

And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf

See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:
http://bellard.org/jslinux

Thanks in advance




From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sun Dec  4 01:51:31 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software? "fiasco", where everything on it is usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



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From jay.krell at cornell.edu  Sun Dec  4 02:03:46 2011
From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 01:03:46 +0000
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>


I agree based on the year, it is probably not very valuable.It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be a big complete working system.It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.  Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operatingsystem are drivers, and their surrounding framework.There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.It is a lot of work. A lot. I have to run. - Jay Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software  "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance







-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



 		 	   		  
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sun Dec  4 02:50:29 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 01:50:29 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1322963429.44627.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Dr. Nelson (of course by the time of his thesis was the pinnacle of AI developments) was and is very ahead of its time (still you can argue that).
Of course ESC/Modula-3 and specifically data abstraction and information hiding verification is so much ahead of our times, that is anything but using the available technology is as many years as DEC-SRC collaborators on ESC programmers plus a number of years of that had not been available.
By that time say in many years we would have a complete system if we were enough smart to scale it to network object verification technology, etc. And consider x-kernel influenced by DEC-SRC Taos, etc, so if you add both sums, I happen to think that is is already ahead of its time. Also consider, several DEC-SRC members are Turing awards and who know whom more by the time we finish it.

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:

De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: RE: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:03




I agree based on the year, it is probably?not very valuable.
It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be?a big complete working system.
It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.
?
?
Either?way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an?operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver?related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
It is a lot of work. A lot.
?
I have to run.
?- Jay?
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software? "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



 		 	   		  
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Mon Dec  5 23:41:26 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 22:41:26 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1322963429.44627.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323124886.71038.YahooMailClassic@web29707.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Given the existence of an Obliq port over CORBA, and the current (perhaps broken) NetObj implementation, and the probable port on Modula-3 x-kernel, then it has sense to actually provide over that number of platforms a Modula-3 to Obliq JIT interpreter, since there already several virtual machines for it and yet two of them (one JIT) with gcc target and based interpreter.
As it happens x-kernel has been ported in the past for OSF/1, Linux and Solaris, I guess if we can host that ports in a cm3/m3-avoca and cm3/m3-sys/m3toobliq then we can given Obliq available packages have an CM3-IDE Obliq installation part to execute code everywhere not just in local machine, with graphics, etc.
If so a question would be Elego willing to link DEC-SRC research reports and technical notes on the Obliq stuff (SRC-122., SRC-128A, SRC-129, SRC-130A, SRC-138, SRC-141A, SRC-142, SRC-48 and SRC-TN-1997-029)
Let me know your opinions for such a thing.

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: felipevaldez at gmail.com, "Jay K" <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:50

Hi all:
Dr. Nelson (of course by the time of his thesis was the pinnacle of AI developments) was and is very ahead of its time (still you can argue that).
Of course ESC/Modula-3 and specifically data abstraction and information hiding verification is so much ahead of our times, that is anything but using the available technology is as many years as DEC-SRC collaborators on ESC programmers plus a number of years of that had not been available.
By that time say in many years we would have a complete system if we were enough smart to scale it to network object verification technology, etc. And consider x-kernel influenced by DEC-SRC Taos, etc, so if you add both sums, I happen to think that is is already ahead of its time. Also consider, several DEC-SRC members are Turing awards and who know whom more by the time we finish it.

Thanks in
 advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:

De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: RE: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:03




I agree based on the year, it is probably?not very valuable.
It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be?a big complete working system.
It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.
?
?
Either?way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an?operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver?related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
It is a lot of work. A lot.
?
I have to run.
?- Jay?
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we
 don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software? "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



 		 	   		  
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From dragisha at m3w.org  Wed Dec  7 21:02:40 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 21:02:40 +0100
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>

The best idea for non-C in operating systems, it looks to me - is to make it possible to do framework things like network protocol, device driver, filesystem - in said non-C.

On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:03 AM, Jay K wrote:

> Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operating
> system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
> There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
> It is a lot of work. A lot.

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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec  7 21:20:46 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:20:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-919SNLhLLBL4XLbj8nrugb5MV+xhmrBUyVDziOHzF7Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323289246.66005.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi:
yes, uhm I think I see your point is, whether we would be using a Modula-3 OS or not in daily use, and as it happens there was a project on that for ARM based workstation, but didn't panned out, due slow down in performance in HW intrinsics, and some Company's budgeting concerns made it not to be? completed.
It was supposed to be a 2k Acorn Archimedes:
http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/20010824_Not_A_RISC_By_Thursday

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.acorn/browse_thread/thread/6bc26531c038159f/b387b6b1c9abbfd7

This budget is the same others companies tried to achieve with Gnu/Linux, and GNU/Hurd was supposed to be a modern of the day OS, wih Mach based microkernel:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel1%2F2225%2F1156%2F00028082.pdf%3Farnumber%3D28082&authDecision=-203

Even you could get one working with a TUBE co-processor of the BBC Micro I believe, so you could put a very cheap system with enough productivity to be a workstation:
http://www.osnews.com/thread?189153

DEC tried sending RR and VR via mail service, but you ca judge whether or not they achieved their goal. IMHO it did vastly, since you couldn't get such a good system in the market place of the day

BTW, many people are putting their efforts on reviving the BBC in some time ago.

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 5/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: lunes, 5 de diciembre, 2011 18:33

READ: I WANT STUFF FOR FREE.GIVE ME STUFF

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
Given the existence of an Obliq port over CORBA, and the current (perhaps broken) NetObj implementation, and the probable port on Modula-3 x-kernel, then it has sense to actually provide over that number of platforms a Modula-3 to Obliq JIT interpreter, since there already several virtual machines for it and yet two of them (one JIT) with gcc target and based interpreter.


As it happens x-kernel has been ported in the past for OSF/1, Linux and Solaris, I guess if we can host that ports in a cm3/m3-avoca and cm3/m3-sys/m3toobliq then we can given Obliq available packages have an CM3-IDE Obliq installation part to execute code everywhere not just in local machine, with graphics, etc.


If so a question would be Elego willing to link DEC-SRC research reports and technical notes on the Obliq stuff (SRC-122., SRC-128A, SRC-129, SRC-130A, SRC-138,
 SRC-141A, SRC-142, SRC-48 and SRC-TN-1997-029)
Let me know your opinions for such a thing.

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: felipevaldez at gmail.com, "Jay K" <jay.krell at cornell.edu>


CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:50



Hi all:
Dr. Nelson (of course
 by the time of his thesis was the pinnacle of AI developments) was and is very ahead of its time (still you can argue that).
Of course ESC/Modula-3 and specifically data abstraction and information hiding verification is so much ahead of our times, that is anything but using the available technology is as many years as DEC-SRC collaborators on ESC programmers plus a number of years of that had not been available.


By that time say in many years we would have a complete system if we were enough smart to scale it to network object verification technology, etc. And consider x-kernel influenced by DEC-SRC Taos, etc, so if you add both sums, I happen to think that is is already ahead of its time. Also consider, several DEC-SRC members are Turing awards and who know whom more by the time we finish it.



Thanks in
 advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:



De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: RE: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, felipevaldez at gmail.com


CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:03




I agree based on the year, it is probably not very valuable.
It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be a big complete working system.
It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.


 
 
Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.


It is a lot of work. A lot.
 
I have to run.
 - Jay 
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel



Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).


So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?


The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we
 don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software  "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel


Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46





On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf









whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean




let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.




I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,



as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.







I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).







If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).







And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:





http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901





 		 	   		  



-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901






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From jay.krell at cornell.edu  Thu Dec  8 02:04:55 2011
From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
	<1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>
Message-ID: <9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>

Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient & portable.

But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..

?

 - Jay (phone)

On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:02 PM, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> wrote:

> The best idea for non-C in operating systems, it looks to me - is to make it possible to do framework things like network protocol, device driver, filesystem - in said non-C.
> 
> On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:03 AM, Jay K wrote:
> 
>> Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operating
>> system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
>> There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
>> It is a lot of work. A lot.
> 
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Dec  8 05:31:51 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 04:31:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323318711.74369.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
indeed the ARM ARX OS had PC emulation support (read a 8088-like CPU, does anyone offer that today, or just companies like those DEC and Acorn, would 'afford'), and yet all the computation was inside RISC chip and since it was microkernel, it sent VDU calls across the tube at user-level (GKS), so basically yes,? you had the opportunity with that kind of multi-server OS to make everything more usable in the user-land.
I suspect this sounds like we want that OS in the three, but then anyway, we would need some work to debug the OS before we got into other OSes, I mean? 'libkernelc' is a potential target for deployment of more thing slike the ARX use of WORm disks FS, etc.
Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 7/12/11, Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:

De: Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Dragi?a Duri?" <dragisha at m3w.org>
CC: "Jay K" <jay.krell at cornell.edu>, "<dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>" <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>, "<felipevaldez at gmail.com>" <felipevaldez at gmail.com>, "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 7 de diciembre, 2011 20:04

Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient & portable.
But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..

?
?- Jay (phone)
On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:02 PM, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> wrote:

The best idea for non-C in operating systems, it looks to me - is to make it possible to do framework things like network protocol, device driver, filesystem - in said non-C.
On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:03 AM, Jay K wrote:
Either?way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an?operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver?related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
It is a lot of work. A lot.
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From dknoto at next.com.pl  Thu Dec  8 07:55:38 2011
From: dknoto at next.com.pl (Dariusz =?UTF-8?B?S25vY2nFhHNraQ==?=)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 07:55:38 +0100
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
	<1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>
	<9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111208075538.5ce9cb1a.dknoto@next.com.pl>

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu> wrote:

> Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient & portable.
> 
> But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..
> 
What do you think about  project L4? This is small efficient microkernel written
in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite to Modula-3. All drivers can
be run in user space.

DKnoto.

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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Dec  8 13:47:51 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:47:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <20111208075538.5ce9cb1a.dknoto@next.com.pl>
Message-ID: <1323348471.45492.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels, in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7 with Jigsaw framework:
http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

called Etyma
and a kind of application for C++:
http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to replace everything by Modula-3 code like:
ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl> escribi?:

> De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55
> On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
> Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux
> kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in
> Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient
> & portable.
> > 
> > But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..
> > 
> What do you think about  project L4? This is small
> efficient microkernel written
> in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite to
> Modula-3. All drivers can
> be run in user space.
> 
> DKnoto.
> 
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 15:38:18 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 14:38:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323348471.45492.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323787098.37802.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:
http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2

And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies, I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API, so I bet you could to equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
Thanks in advance 

--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47
> Hi all:
> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,
> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in
> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7
> with Jigsaw framework:
> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz
> 
> called Etyma
> and a kind of application for C++:
> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf
> 
> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to
> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:
> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> escribi?:
> 
> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,
> AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55
> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or
> Linux
> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written
> in
> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &
> efficient
> > & portable.
> > > 
> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode
> drivers..
> > > 
> > What do you think about  project L4? This is
> small
> > efficient microkernel written
> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite
> to
> > Modula-3. All drivers can
> > be run in user space.
> > 
> > DKnoto.
> > 
> >
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 22:54:50 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:54:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_AKWpukhia3L0A=ejWN_hTXc27cntxW7WdfOZS30c25Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I meant that wherever you had that OS, either Acorn, Olivetti was the nest of the best programming language ever (well let's say for its time having in account that they planned it to be ten years ahead of the current use of that systems, say Java 1996), of course followed that it should be? at the front some years ago (2006) and say that some parts were not released as today. 
I see the business model as a consequence of the product not the market place, if it were so, then why they had the politics of something ahead of its time 5 to 10 years, it would be contradictory.
If you want to compare what you some OS companies are trying to do are not near of that, with Hypervisors, etc systems that would need 60 years of work of a man, and you already have that, why do you think they want to do so? 
But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI toolkits, at Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that even that wasn't released as well, what does that mean, that nobody used it?
Thanks in advance


--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From hendrik at topoi.pooq.com  Tue Dec 13 23:38:48 2011
From: hendrik at topoi.pooq.com (Hendrik Boom)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:38:48 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_AKWpukhia3L0A=ejWN_hTXc27cntxW7WdfOZS30c25Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
>
> But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI toolkits, at 
> Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that even that wasn't 
> released as well, what does that mean, that nobody used it?

If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So why did they not 
release it?

-- hendrik


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 23:36:50 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:36:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323815810.24590.YahooMailClassic@web29718.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I give you own example of it:
http://blip.tv/the-rotor-show/video-mail-retrieval-demo-133495

http://web.archive.org/web/19970225153813/http://www.orl.co.uk/abstracts.html

http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathangibbons

I guess is the same question for where are the video tutorials, well there they are.

And still you are asking why it hasn't been marketed? Look what Software crisis is, and what does that mean practically, what one needs to do to be finished (Tip see Japanese 5th generation of computers).

But let's start thinking how can you put a class room of Modula-like systems in the video browser. From a bunch of about 6 millions lines of code. That's why I always think in Mentor aid material

Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 16:54

Hi all:
I meant that wherever you had that OS, either Acorn, Olivetti was the nest of the best programming language ever (well let's say for its time having in account that they planned it to be ten years ahead of the current use of that systems, say Java 1996), of course followed that it should be? at the front some years ago (2006) and say that some parts were not released as today. 
I see the business model as a consequence of the product not the market place, if it were so, then why they had the politics of something ahead of its time 5 to 10 years, it would be contradictory.
If you want to compare what you some OS companies are trying to do are not near of that, with Hypervisors, etc systems that would need 60 years of work of a man, and you already have that, why do you think they want to do so? 
But the best is still unknown they worked
 hard in UI toolkits, at Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that even that wasn't released as well, what does that mean, that nobody used it?
Thanks in advance


--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
 wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 23:58:24 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:58:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <1323817104.20924.YahooMailClassic@web29716.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
If they weren't used why would you construct workstation based around the idea, Hector (three headed Lexicographer Workstation) project at DEC-SRC/Oxford-UP, and Pandora Box at Olivetti-RL/Cambridge-UCL/ED:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=168200

If that's a experience didn't do any good to be their labs as in DEC-SRC and Universities dream workstations, I'm a philosopher. but whether they asked it once again one doesn't know. How can you say that.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:

> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> >
> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> toolkits, at 
> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> even that wasn't 
> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> used it?
> 
> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So
> why did they not 
> release it?
> 
> -- hendrik
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec 14 02:28:57 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 01:28:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_AKWpukhia3L0A=ejWN_hTXc27cntxW7WdfOZS30c25Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323826137.98149.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
among others motivations was to build a Educational Standard Workstation for High schools in the European Educational Standard:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=RYH7o-4ykmMC&lpg=PA22&ots=n9hP3BGn6Z&dq=european%20educational%20standard%20acorn%20olivetti&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

But Olivetti ported it to the Olivetti PC, so how can you say why they wanted to do that way the WS?
The things have changed IA32-AMD64 is severely threatened by the ARM ecosystem, and guess what all of their development tools (Simulators, and some other standards by Acorn) are based originals of Acorn.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec 14 20:56:26 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:56:26 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323826137.98149.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323892586.58297.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
perhaps we are stalled in what VM or infrastructure we should rely onto that, I see this ones had in account Modula-3 execution (nonetheless Oberon was a lot copied in JVM), and Oberon and Modula-2 are languages with many similarities with Modula-3:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-525.pdf

But yet another example of unreleased though used Modula- like code was in BNR Pascal (aka Modular Pascal), this was a dialect in use and a process to reunite with Modula-3, also ths guys worked hard in hard-to solve problems, like Voice oriented WS (PX) and their own XMS OS:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/52/35718/01695330.pdf

http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

They coded 5 MLOC of that pascal version. If we could effectively reunite both systems in the type systems, and sort out other differences as well, eventually we would need to somehow diminish the software they built to the bare minimum, but get a lot of good stuff from the languages as well as the kernels they did:
http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 20:28

Hi all:
among others motivations was to build a Educational Standard Workstation for High schools in the European Educational Standard:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=RYH7o-4ykmMC&lpg=PA22&ots=n9hP3BGn6Z&dq=european%20educational%20standard%20acorn%20olivetti&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

But Olivetti ported it to the Olivetti PC, so how can you say why they wanted to do that way the WS?
The things have changed IA32-AMD64 is severely threatened by the ARM ecosystem, and guess what all of their development tools (Simulators, and some other standards by Acorn) are based originals of Acorn.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe
 valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec 14 22:20:57 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 21:20:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323892586.58297.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323897657.84594.YahooMailClassic@web29702.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
and yet one again x-thing appears out of curiosity, the xvm eXtensible Vitual Machine from the author:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~tlh20/slides/tim-harris-peg2-4-1-5-slides.ppt

I guess the intended point of this would this define a language for defining the machine, like the Japanese 5th Generation of Computers, with KL a logical language sized in terms of MLIPS Logical Inferences Per Second, unfortunately the software substrate didn't do any good for their results, I bet what would happen in our days software with such a proposal.
Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 14/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 14 de diciembre, 2011 14:56

Hi all:
perhaps we are stalled in what VM or infrastructure we should rely onto that, I see this ones had in account Modula-3 execution (nonetheless Oberon was a lot copied in JVM), and Oberon and Modula-2 are languages with many similarities with Modula-3:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-525.pdf

But yet another example of unreleased though used Modula- like code was in BNR Pascal (aka Modular Pascal), this was a dialect in use and a process to reunite with Modula-3, also ths guys worked hard in hard-to solve problems, like Voice oriented WS (PX) and their own XMS OS:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/52/35718/01695330.pdf

http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

They coded 5 MLOC of that pascal version. If we could effectively reunite both systems in the type systems, and sort out other differences as
 well, eventually we would need to somehow diminish the software they built to the bare minimum, but get a lot of good stuff from the languages as well as the kernels they did:
http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 20:28

Hi all:
among others motivations was to build a Educational Standard Workstation for High schools in the European Educational Standard:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=RYH7o-4ykmMC&lpg=PA22&ots=n9hP3BGn6Z&dq=european%20educational%20standard%20acorn%20olivetti&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

But Olivetti ported it to the Olivetti PC, so how can you say why they wanted to do that way the WS?
The things have changed IA32-AMD64 is severely threatened by the ARM ecosystem, and guess what all of their development tools (Simulators, and some other standards by Acorn) are based originals of Acorn.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe
 valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Mon Dec 19 19:08:28 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 18:08:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View

If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701

Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:
http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf

But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).

Thanks in advance 

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:

> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> >
> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> toolkits, at 
> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> even that wasn't 
> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> used it?
> 
> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So
> why did they not 
> release it?
> 
> -- hendrik
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 01:17:05 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:17:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1324340225.14455.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I think the case is they just hacked the system with a BSD kernel and Modula and C runtime to their 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_iX#A680_Technical_Publishing_System

I guess this was the "clone" Acorn Unix ARX, that is the way to not release the ARX; wbut anyway it were never released, though Risc iX saw the light of the market:
http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Manuals/Acorn_TechnicalPublishingSystemTRMPt1.pdf

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Manuals/Acorn_TechnicalPublishingSystemTRMPt2.pdf

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 13:08
> Hi all:
> Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX
> Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the
> developer machines):
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View
> 
> If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were
> very important as you can see in this 01:30 video
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701
> 
> Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:
> 
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
> 
> It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost
> issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling
> machines were not ready for its system:
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf
> 
> But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame,
> since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip
> (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost
> relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons
> (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).
> 
> Thanks in advance 
> 
> --- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> escribi?:
> 
> > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,
> AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> > +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> > >
> > > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in
> UI
> > toolkits, at 
> > > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and
> that
> > even that wasn't 
> > > released as well, what does that mean, that
> nobody
> > used it?
> > 
> > If they didn't release it, no one could use it. 
> So
> > why did they not 
> > release it?
> > 
> > -- hendrik
> >
> 


From dataf4l at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 01:37:55 2011
From: dataf4l at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:37:55 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>
	<1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
> Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides
> 100 or so developers on the developer machines):
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View
>
> If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important
> as you can see in this 01:30 video
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701
>
> Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:
>
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
>

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.



>
> It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather
> than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its
> system:
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf
>
> But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a
> pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that
> fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some
> other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:
>
> > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> > +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> > >
> > > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> > toolkits, at
> > > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> > even that wasn't
> > > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> > used it?
> >
> > If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So
> > why did they not
> > release it?
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
>



-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 01:57:08 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:57:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324342628.83516.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:

I think the same applies for the all market of the day, still ARX was on the market through some other companies products, how can you be so sure, it wasn't that as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes#Significance_and_impact

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37



On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View





If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 





It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).





Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dataf4l at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 05:27:06 2011
From: dataf4l at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 23:27:06 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1324342628.83516.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<1324342628.83516.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_--8SDwrb6NU-RFFPogBuWhWAy3gBGv4uMsUQpT9YFtP+g@mail.gmail.com>

Despite a technical edge[*citation
needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
*], the Archimedes only ever met a moderate success beyond the education
sector, becoming a 'minority' platform outside of certain niche markets.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
>
> I think the same applies for the all market of the day, still ARX was on
> the market through some other companies products, how can you be so sure,
> it wasn't that as well:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes#Significance_and_impact
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El *lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>* escribi?:
>
>
> De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
> dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
> Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides
> 100 or so developers on the developer machines):
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View
>
> If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important
> as you can see in this 01:30 video
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701
>
> Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:
>
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
>
>
> "CPU Clock8MHz"
>
> alt+f4.
>
>
>
> It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather
> than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its
> system:
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf
>
> But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a
> pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that
> fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some
> other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com<http://mc/compose?to=hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>>
> escribi?:
>
> > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com<http://mc/compose?to=hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> >
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> > Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> > +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> > >
> > > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> > toolkits, at
> > > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> > even that wasn't
> > > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> > used it?
> >
> > If they didn't release it, no one could use it. So
> > why did they not
> > release it?
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> 312-444-2124
> Skype: f3l.headhunter
> Casa: 8043901
>
>
>


-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 21:12:37 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:12:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324411957.22414.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Have a look at the real workstation Window System problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#cite_ref-23

Having said that, still the Window system in the A500 was ahead of its time so you might say it could run in BBC-Micro systems, like 32016 as VDU across the TUBE ULA but HW backwards compatibility as well!

There is a book refereed to that as well who details the Archimedes A500 architecture If my memory serves still:
http://www.zxdesign.info/book/bookAnnounce.shtml

See other projects have included this technologies as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#Set-Top_boxes

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37



On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View





If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 





It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).





Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 21:30:53 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:30:53 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_dRNG7jC4RC5OodZsRT2rCW0Hg6A-J_URRNgKJ2o3NNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324413053.25354.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Thanks for the message but don't be troubled:

http://books.google.com.co/books?id=xIujg_rkEX8C

http://books.google.com.co/books?id=n7eVRz6edrMC&lpg=PA62&dq=jvideo%20xerox&pg=PA61#v=onepage&q&f=false

I think the times changes as so that projects evolve, but still they are the research field, and not still in the market, are they dead?

--- El mar, 20/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 20 de diciembre, 2011 15:26

I just can't be excited about dead Operating systems, running on 8mhz hardware.
not the stuff for me tough.
I'm sure it is *your* coup of tea....
but I sort of feel spammed by it...




On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
Have a look at the real workstation Window System problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#cite_ref-23



Having said that, still the Window system in the A500 was ahead of its time so you might say it could run in BBC-Micro systems, like 32016 as VDU across the TUBE ULA but HW backwards compatibility as well!

There is a book refereed to that as well who details the Archimedes A500 architecture If my memory serves still:


http://www.zxdesign.info/book/bookAnnounce.shtml

See other projects have included this technologies as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#Set-Top_boxes



Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37





On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:




Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View







If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 







It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).







Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901





-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Dec 23 17:51:15 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 16:51:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_dRNG7jC4RC5OodZsRT2rCW0Hg6A-J_URRNgKJ2o3NNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324659075.20655.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I feel good news are not good for "dead OSes" bad news:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2011/05/a_15_computer_to_inspire_young.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16316439

Do you feel the same, isn't that the Modula-3 promotion pan-project?

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 20/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 20 de diciembre, 2011 15:26

I just can't be excited about dead Operating systems, running on 8mhz hardware.
not the stuff for me tough.
I'm sure it is *your* coup of tea....
but I sort of feel spammed by it...




On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
Have a look at the real workstation Window System problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#cite_ref-23



Having said that, still the Window system in the A500 was ahead of its time so you might say it could run in BBC-Micro systems, like 32016 as VDU across the TUBE ULA but HW backwards compatibility as well!

There is a book refereed to that as well who details the Archimedes A500 architecture If my memory serves still:


http://www.zxdesign.info/book/bookAnnounce.shtml

See other projects have included this technologies as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#Set-Top_boxes



Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37





On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:




Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View







If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 







It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).







Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901





-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Dec 30 16:27:58 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:27:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] =?iso-8859-1?q?About_ARM_=B5-PC?=
Message-ID: <1325258878.41283.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
inf act, I remember working on installing a 386 VM library for Linux, and it can be run in ARM, etc:
http://www.nocrew.org/software/a386

So for question 
1) Basically a translation library to Linux kernel interrupts
2) An e.g a386 abstracted instruction set layer over bare HW (a VM implementation native on Risc OS).

I guess the debate between both worlds is open by Tanenbaum and Torvalds on kernel types, but in any event, if that's good for Linux kernel to run on top of any other system, I would be open to debate (a Micro-kernel), but I guess for OS research you can run pretty much Linux on a W95 system, like eCos, but this isn't very efficient I guess in terms you are asking (as to what to expect for context switching, etc).

Thanks in advance


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Dec 30 16:41:08 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:41:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] =?iso-8859-1?q?About_ARM_=B5-PC?=
In-Reply-To: <1325258878.41283.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1325259668.52270.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Sorry for the wrong text message but in fact what I wanted to let you know is that a Micro-Kernel has been worked out in Modula-3 for AIX, OS/2 and AS400 besides licensed for ARM and it resulted in a U$ 2 bn effort.
I guess if that's the case we would need to ask what about that project.
I hope its true, then it is sound to think on layering everything into it, including every OS mentioned here.
Thanks in advance

--- El vie, 30/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: [M3devel] About ARM ?-PC
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: viernes, 30 de diciembre, 2011 10:27
> Hi all:
> inf act, I remember working on installing a 386 VM library
> for Linux, and it can be run in ARM, etc:
> http://www.nocrew.org/software/a386
> 
> So for question 
> 1) Basically a translation library to Linux kernel
> interrupts
> 2) An e.g a386 abstracted instruction set layer over bare
> HW (a VM implementation native on Risc OS).
> 
> I guess the debate between both worlds is open by Tanenbaum
> and Torvalds on kernel types, but in any event, if that's
> good for Linux kernel to run on top of any other system, I
> would be open to debate (a Micro-kernel), but I guess for OS
> research you can run pretty much Linux on a W95 system, like
> eCos, but this isn't very efficient I guess in terms you are
> asking (as to what to expect for context switching, etc).
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sat Dec  3 22:58:53 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 21:58:53 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Message-ID: <1322949533.85703.YahooMailClassic@web29709.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf

 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.

Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.

I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).

If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).

And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf

See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:
http://bellard.org/jslinux

Thanks in advance




From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sun Dec  4 01:51:31 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software? "fiasco", where everything on it is usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



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From jay.krell at cornell.edu  Sun Dec  4 02:03:46 2011
From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 01:03:46 +0000
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>


I agree based on the year, it is probably not very valuable.It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be a big complete working system.It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.  Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operatingsystem are drivers, and their surrounding framework.There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.It is a lot of work. A lot. I have to run. - Jay Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software  "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance







-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



 		 	   		  
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sun Dec  4 02:50:29 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 01:50:29 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1322963429.44627.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Dr. Nelson (of course by the time of his thesis was the pinnacle of AI developments) was and is very ahead of its time (still you can argue that).
Of course ESC/Modula-3 and specifically data abstraction and information hiding verification is so much ahead of our times, that is anything but using the available technology is as many years as DEC-SRC collaborators on ESC programmers plus a number of years of that had not been available.
By that time say in many years we would have a complete system if we were enough smart to scale it to network object verification technology, etc. And consider x-kernel influenced by DEC-SRC Taos, etc, so if you add both sums, I happen to think that is is already ahead of its time. Also consider, several DEC-SRC members are Turing awards and who know whom more by the time we finish it.

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:

De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: RE: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:03




I agree based on the year, it is probably?not very valuable.
It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be?a big complete working system.
It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.
?
?
Either?way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an?operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver?related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
It is a lot of work. A lot.
?
I have to run.
?- Jay?
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software? "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



 		 	   		  
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Mon Dec  5 23:41:26 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 22:41:26 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1322963429.44627.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323124886.71038.YahooMailClassic@web29707.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Given the existence of an Obliq port over CORBA, and the current (perhaps broken) NetObj implementation, and the probable port on Modula-3 x-kernel, then it has sense to actually provide over that number of platforms a Modula-3 to Obliq JIT interpreter, since there already several virtual machines for it and yet two of them (one JIT) with gcc target and based interpreter.
As it happens x-kernel has been ported in the past for OSF/1, Linux and Solaris, I guess if we can host that ports in a cm3/m3-avoca and cm3/m3-sys/m3toobliq then we can given Obliq available packages have an CM3-IDE Obliq installation part to execute code everywhere not just in local machine, with graphics, etc.
If so a question would be Elego willing to link DEC-SRC research reports and technical notes on the Obliq stuff (SRC-122., SRC-128A, SRC-129, SRC-130A, SRC-138, SRC-141A, SRC-142, SRC-48 and SRC-TN-1997-029)
Let me know your opinions for such a thing.

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: felipevaldez at gmail.com, "Jay K" <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:50

Hi all:
Dr. Nelson (of course by the time of his thesis was the pinnacle of AI developments) was and is very ahead of its time (still you can argue that).
Of course ESC/Modula-3 and specifically data abstraction and information hiding verification is so much ahead of our times, that is anything but using the available technology is as many years as DEC-SRC collaborators on ESC programmers plus a number of years of that had not been available.
By that time say in many years we would have a complete system if we were enough smart to scale it to network object verification technology, etc. And consider x-kernel influenced by DEC-SRC Taos, etc, so if you add both sums, I happen to think that is is already ahead of its time. Also consider, several DEC-SRC members are Turing awards and who know whom more by the time we finish it.

Thanks in
 advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:

De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: RE: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:03




I agree based on the year, it is probably?not very valuable.
It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be?a big complete working system.
It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.
?
?
Either?way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an?operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver?related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
It is a lot of work. A lot.
?
I have to run.
?- Jay?
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we
 don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software? "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



 		 	   		  
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From dragisha at m3w.org  Wed Dec  7 21:02:40 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 21:02:40 +0100
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>

The best idea for non-C in operating systems, it looks to me - is to make it possible to do framework things like network protocol, device driver, filesystem - in said non-C.

On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:03 AM, Jay K wrote:

> Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operating
> system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
> There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
> It is a lot of work. A lot.

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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec  7 21:20:46 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:20:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-919SNLhLLBL4XLbj8nrugb5MV+xhmrBUyVDziOHzF7Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323289246.66005.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi:
yes, uhm I think I see your point is, whether we would be using a Modula-3 OS or not in daily use, and as it happens there was a project on that for ARM based workstation, but didn't panned out, due slow down in performance in HW intrinsics, and some Company's budgeting concerns made it not to be? completed.
It was supposed to be a 2k Acorn Archimedes:
http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/20010824_Not_A_RISC_By_Thursday

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.acorn/browse_thread/thread/6bc26531c038159f/b387b6b1c9abbfd7

This budget is the same others companies tried to achieve with Gnu/Linux, and GNU/Hurd was supposed to be a modern of the day OS, wih Mach based microkernel:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel1%2F2225%2F1156%2F00028082.pdf%3Farnumber%3D28082&authDecision=-203

Even you could get one working with a TUBE co-processor of the BBC Micro I believe, so you could put a very cheap system with enough productivity to be a workstation:
http://www.osnews.com/thread?189153

DEC tried sending RR and VR via mail service, but you ca judge whether or not they achieved their goal. IMHO it did vastly, since you couldn't get such a good system in the market place of the day

BTW, many people are putting their efforts on reviving the BBC in some time ago.

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 5/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: lunes, 5 de diciembre, 2011 18:33

READ: I WANT STUFF FOR FREE.GIVE ME STUFF

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
Given the existence of an Obliq port over CORBA, and the current (perhaps broken) NetObj implementation, and the probable port on Modula-3 x-kernel, then it has sense to actually provide over that number of platforms a Modula-3 to Obliq JIT interpreter, since there already several virtual machines for it and yet two of them (one JIT) with gcc target and based interpreter.


As it happens x-kernel has been ported in the past for OSF/1, Linux and Solaris, I guess if we can host that ports in a cm3/m3-avoca and cm3/m3-sys/m3toobliq then we can given Obliq available packages have an CM3-IDE Obliq installation part to execute code everywhere not just in local machine, with graphics, etc.


If so a question would be Elego willing to link DEC-SRC research reports and technical notes on the Obliq stuff (SRC-122., SRC-128A, SRC-129, SRC-130A, SRC-138,
 SRC-141A, SRC-142, SRC-48 and SRC-TN-1997-029)
Let me know your opinions for such a thing.

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: felipevaldez at gmail.com, "Jay K" <jay.krell at cornell.edu>


CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:50



Hi all:
Dr. Nelson (of course
 by the time of his thesis was the pinnacle of AI developments) was and is very ahead of its time (still you can argue that).
Of course ESC/Modula-3 and specifically data abstraction and information hiding verification is so much ahead of our times, that is anything but using the available technology is as many years as DEC-SRC collaborators on ESC programmers plus a number of years of that had not been available.


By that time say in many years we would have a complete system if we were enough smart to scale it to network object verification technology, etc. And consider x-kernel influenced by DEC-SRC Taos, etc, so if you add both sums, I happen to think that is is already ahead of its time. Also consider, several DEC-SRC members are Turing awards and who know whom more by the time we finish it.



Thanks in
 advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:



De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: RE: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, felipevaldez at gmail.com


CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:03




I agree based on the year, it is probably not very valuable.
It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be a big complete working system.
It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.


 
 
Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.


It is a lot of work. A lot.
 
I have to run.
 - Jay 
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel



Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).


So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?


The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we
 don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software  "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel


Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46





On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf









whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean




let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.




I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,



as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.







I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).







If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).







And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:





http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901





 		 	   		  



-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901






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From jay.krell at cornell.edu  Thu Dec  8 02:04:55 2011
From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
	<1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>
Message-ID: <9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>

Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient & portable.

But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..

?

 - Jay (phone)

On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:02 PM, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> wrote:

> The best idea for non-C in operating systems, it looks to me - is to make it possible to do framework things like network protocol, device driver, filesystem - in said non-C.
> 
> On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:03 AM, Jay K wrote:
> 
>> Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operating
>> system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
>> There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
>> It is a lot of work. A lot.
> 
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Dec  8 05:31:51 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 04:31:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323318711.74369.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
indeed the ARM ARX OS had PC emulation support (read a 8088-like CPU, does anyone offer that today, or just companies like those DEC and Acorn, would 'afford'), and yet all the computation was inside RISC chip and since it was microkernel, it sent VDU calls across the tube at user-level (GKS), so basically yes,? you had the opportunity with that kind of multi-server OS to make everything more usable in the user-land.
I suspect this sounds like we want that OS in the three, but then anyway, we would need some work to debug the OS before we got into other OSes, I mean? 'libkernelc' is a potential target for deployment of more thing slike the ARX use of WORm disks FS, etc.
Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 7/12/11, Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:

De: Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Dragi?a Duri?" <dragisha at m3w.org>
CC: "Jay K" <jay.krell at cornell.edu>, "<dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>" <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>, "<felipevaldez at gmail.com>" <felipevaldez at gmail.com>, "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 7 de diciembre, 2011 20:04

Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient & portable.
But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..

?
?- Jay (phone)
On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:02 PM, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> wrote:

The best idea for non-C in operating systems, it looks to me - is to make it possible to do framework things like network protocol, device driver, filesystem - in said non-C.
On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:03 AM, Jay K wrote:
Either?way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an?operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver?related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
It is a lot of work. A lot.
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From dknoto at next.com.pl  Thu Dec  8 07:55:38 2011
From: dknoto at next.com.pl (Dariusz =?UTF-8?B?S25vY2nFhHNraQ==?=)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 07:55:38 +0100
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
	<1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>
	<9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111208075538.5ce9cb1a.dknoto@next.com.pl>

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu> wrote:

> Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient & portable.
> 
> But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..
> 
What do you think about  project L4? This is small efficient microkernel written
in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite to Modula-3. All drivers can
be run in user space.

DKnoto.

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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Dec  8 13:47:51 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:47:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <20111208075538.5ce9cb1a.dknoto@next.com.pl>
Message-ID: <1323348471.45492.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels, in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7 with Jigsaw framework:
http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

called Etyma
and a kind of application for C++:
http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to replace everything by Modula-3 code like:
ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl> escribi?:

> De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55
> On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
> Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux
> kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in
> Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient
> & portable.
> > 
> > But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..
> > 
> What do you think about  project L4? This is small
> efficient microkernel written
> in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite to
> Modula-3. All drivers can
> be run in user space.
> 
> DKnoto.
> 
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 15:38:18 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 14:38:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323348471.45492.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323787098.37802.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:
http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2

And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies, I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API, so I bet you could to equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
Thanks in advance 

--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47
> Hi all:
> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,
> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in
> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7
> with Jigsaw framework:
> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz
> 
> called Etyma
> and a kind of application for C++:
> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf
> 
> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to
> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:
> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> escribi?:
> 
> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,
> AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55
> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or
> Linux
> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written
> in
> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &
> efficient
> > & portable.
> > > 
> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode
> drivers..
> > > 
> > What do you think about  project L4? This is
> small
> > efficient microkernel written
> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite
> to
> > Modula-3. All drivers can
> > be run in user space.
> > 
> > DKnoto.
> > 
> >
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 22:54:50 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:54:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_AKWpukhia3L0A=ejWN_hTXc27cntxW7WdfOZS30c25Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I meant that wherever you had that OS, either Acorn, Olivetti was the nest of the best programming language ever (well let's say for its time having in account that they planned it to be ten years ahead of the current use of that systems, say Java 1996), of course followed that it should be? at the front some years ago (2006) and say that some parts were not released as today. 
I see the business model as a consequence of the product not the market place, if it were so, then why they had the politics of something ahead of its time 5 to 10 years, it would be contradictory.
If you want to compare what you some OS companies are trying to do are not near of that, with Hypervisors, etc systems that would need 60 years of work of a man, and you already have that, why do you think they want to do so? 
But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI toolkits, at Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that even that wasn't released as well, what does that mean, that nobody used it?
Thanks in advance


--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From hendrik at topoi.pooq.com  Tue Dec 13 23:38:48 2011
From: hendrik at topoi.pooq.com (Hendrik Boom)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:38:48 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_AKWpukhia3L0A=ejWN_hTXc27cntxW7WdfOZS30c25Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
>
> But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI toolkits, at 
> Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that even that wasn't 
> released as well, what does that mean, that nobody used it?

If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So why did they not 
release it?

-- hendrik


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 23:36:50 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:36:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323815810.24590.YahooMailClassic@web29718.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I give you own example of it:
http://blip.tv/the-rotor-show/video-mail-retrieval-demo-133495

http://web.archive.org/web/19970225153813/http://www.orl.co.uk/abstracts.html

http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathangibbons

I guess is the same question for where are the video tutorials, well there they are.

And still you are asking why it hasn't been marketed? Look what Software crisis is, and what does that mean practically, what one needs to do to be finished (Tip see Japanese 5th generation of computers).

But let's start thinking how can you put a class room of Modula-like systems in the video browser. From a bunch of about 6 millions lines of code. That's why I always think in Mentor aid material

Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 16:54

Hi all:
I meant that wherever you had that OS, either Acorn, Olivetti was the nest of the best programming language ever (well let's say for its time having in account that they planned it to be ten years ahead of the current use of that systems, say Java 1996), of course followed that it should be? at the front some years ago (2006) and say that some parts were not released as today. 
I see the business model as a consequence of the product not the market place, if it were so, then why they had the politics of something ahead of its time 5 to 10 years, it would be contradictory.
If you want to compare what you some OS companies are trying to do are not near of that, with Hypervisors, etc systems that would need 60 years of work of a man, and you already have that, why do you think they want to do so? 
But the best is still unknown they worked
 hard in UI toolkits, at Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that even that wasn't released as well, what does that mean, that nobody used it?
Thanks in advance


--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
 wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 23:58:24 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:58:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <1323817104.20924.YahooMailClassic@web29716.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
If they weren't used why would you construct workstation based around the idea, Hector (three headed Lexicographer Workstation) project at DEC-SRC/Oxford-UP, and Pandora Box at Olivetti-RL/Cambridge-UCL/ED:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=168200

If that's a experience didn't do any good to be their labs as in DEC-SRC and Universities dream workstations, I'm a philosopher. but whether they asked it once again one doesn't know. How can you say that.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:

> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> >
> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> toolkits, at 
> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> even that wasn't 
> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> used it?
> 
> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So
> why did they not 
> release it?
> 
> -- hendrik
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec 14 02:28:57 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 01:28:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_AKWpukhia3L0A=ejWN_hTXc27cntxW7WdfOZS30c25Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323826137.98149.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
among others motivations was to build a Educational Standard Workstation for High schools in the European Educational Standard:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=RYH7o-4ykmMC&lpg=PA22&ots=n9hP3BGn6Z&dq=european%20educational%20standard%20acorn%20olivetti&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

But Olivetti ported it to the Olivetti PC, so how can you say why they wanted to do that way the WS?
The things have changed IA32-AMD64 is severely threatened by the ARM ecosystem, and guess what all of their development tools (Simulators, and some other standards by Acorn) are based originals of Acorn.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec 14 20:56:26 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:56:26 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323826137.98149.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323892586.58297.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
perhaps we are stalled in what VM or infrastructure we should rely onto that, I see this ones had in account Modula-3 execution (nonetheless Oberon was a lot copied in JVM), and Oberon and Modula-2 are languages with many similarities with Modula-3:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-525.pdf

But yet another example of unreleased though used Modula- like code was in BNR Pascal (aka Modular Pascal), this was a dialect in use and a process to reunite with Modula-3, also ths guys worked hard in hard-to solve problems, like Voice oriented WS (PX) and their own XMS OS:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/52/35718/01695330.pdf

http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

They coded 5 MLOC of that pascal version. If we could effectively reunite both systems in the type systems, and sort out other differences as well, eventually we would need to somehow diminish the software they built to the bare minimum, but get a lot of good stuff from the languages as well as the kernels they did:
http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 20:28

Hi all:
among others motivations was to build a Educational Standard Workstation for High schools in the European Educational Standard:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=RYH7o-4ykmMC&lpg=PA22&ots=n9hP3BGn6Z&dq=european%20educational%20standard%20acorn%20olivetti&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

But Olivetti ported it to the Olivetti PC, so how can you say why they wanted to do that way the WS?
The things have changed IA32-AMD64 is severely threatened by the ARM ecosystem, and guess what all of their development tools (Simulators, and some other standards by Acorn) are based originals of Acorn.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe
 valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec 14 22:20:57 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 21:20:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323892586.58297.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323897657.84594.YahooMailClassic@web29702.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
and yet one again x-thing appears out of curiosity, the xvm eXtensible Vitual Machine from the author:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~tlh20/slides/tim-harris-peg2-4-1-5-slides.ppt

I guess the intended point of this would this define a language for defining the machine, like the Japanese 5th Generation of Computers, with KL a logical language sized in terms of MLIPS Logical Inferences Per Second, unfortunately the software substrate didn't do any good for their results, I bet what would happen in our days software with such a proposal.
Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 14/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 14 de diciembre, 2011 14:56

Hi all:
perhaps we are stalled in what VM or infrastructure we should rely onto that, I see this ones had in account Modula-3 execution (nonetheless Oberon was a lot copied in JVM), and Oberon and Modula-2 are languages with many similarities with Modula-3:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-525.pdf

But yet another example of unreleased though used Modula- like code was in BNR Pascal (aka Modular Pascal), this was a dialect in use and a process to reunite with Modula-3, also ths guys worked hard in hard-to solve problems, like Voice oriented WS (PX) and their own XMS OS:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/52/35718/01695330.pdf

http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

They coded 5 MLOC of that pascal version. If we could effectively reunite both systems in the type systems, and sort out other differences as
 well, eventually we would need to somehow diminish the software they built to the bare minimum, but get a lot of good stuff from the languages as well as the kernels they did:
http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 20:28

Hi all:
among others motivations was to build a Educational Standard Workstation for High schools in the European Educational Standard:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=RYH7o-4ykmMC&lpg=PA22&ots=n9hP3BGn6Z&dq=european%20educational%20standard%20acorn%20olivetti&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

But Olivetti ported it to the Olivetti PC, so how can you say why they wanted to do that way the WS?
The things have changed IA32-AMD64 is severely threatened by the ARM ecosystem, and guess what all of their development tools (Simulators, and some other standards by Acorn) are based originals of Acorn.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe
 valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Mon Dec 19 19:08:28 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 18:08:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View

If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701

Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:
http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf

But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).

Thanks in advance 

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:

> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> >
> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> toolkits, at 
> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> even that wasn't 
> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> used it?
> 
> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So
> why did they not 
> release it?
> 
> -- hendrik
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 01:17:05 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:17:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1324340225.14455.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I think the case is they just hacked the system with a BSD kernel and Modula and C runtime to their 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_iX#A680_Technical_Publishing_System

I guess this was the "clone" Acorn Unix ARX, that is the way to not release the ARX; wbut anyway it were never released, though Risc iX saw the light of the market:
http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Manuals/Acorn_TechnicalPublishingSystemTRMPt1.pdf

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Manuals/Acorn_TechnicalPublishingSystemTRMPt2.pdf

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 13:08
> Hi all:
> Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX
> Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the
> developer machines):
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View
> 
> If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were
> very important as you can see in this 01:30 video
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701
> 
> Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:
> 
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
> 
> It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost
> issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling
> machines were not ready for its system:
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf
> 
> But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame,
> since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip
> (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost
> relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons
> (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).
> 
> Thanks in advance 
> 
> --- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> escribi?:
> 
> > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,
> AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> > +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> > >
> > > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in
> UI
> > toolkits, at 
> > > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and
> that
> > even that wasn't 
> > > released as well, what does that mean, that
> nobody
> > used it?
> > 
> > If they didn't release it, no one could use it. 
> So
> > why did they not 
> > release it?
> > 
> > -- hendrik
> >
> 


From dataf4l at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 01:37:55 2011
From: dataf4l at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:37:55 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>
	<1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
> Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides
> 100 or so developers on the developer machines):
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View
>
> If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important
> as you can see in this 01:30 video
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701
>
> Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:
>
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
>

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.



>
> It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather
> than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its
> system:
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf
>
> But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a
> pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that
> fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some
> other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:
>
> > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> > +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> > >
> > > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> > toolkits, at
> > > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> > even that wasn't
> > > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> > used it?
> >
> > If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So
> > why did they not
> > release it?
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
>



-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 01:57:08 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:57:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324342628.83516.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:

I think the same applies for the all market of the day, still ARX was on the market through some other companies products, how can you be so sure, it wasn't that as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes#Significance_and_impact

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37



On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View





If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 





It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).





Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dataf4l at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 05:27:06 2011
From: dataf4l at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 23:27:06 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1324342628.83516.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<1324342628.83516.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_--8SDwrb6NU-RFFPogBuWhWAy3gBGv4uMsUQpT9YFtP+g@mail.gmail.com>

Despite a technical edge[*citation
needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
*], the Archimedes only ever met a moderate success beyond the education
sector, becoming a 'minority' platform outside of certain niche markets.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
>
> I think the same applies for the all market of the day, still ARX was on
> the market through some other companies products, how can you be so sure,
> it wasn't that as well:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes#Significance_and_impact
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El *lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>* escribi?:
>
>
> De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
> dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
> Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides
> 100 or so developers on the developer machines):
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View
>
> If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important
> as you can see in this 01:30 video
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701
>
> Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:
>
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
>
>
> "CPU Clock8MHz"
>
> alt+f4.
>
>
>
> It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather
> than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its
> system:
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf
>
> But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a
> pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that
> fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some
> other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com<http://mc/compose?to=hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>>
> escribi?:
>
> > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com<http://mc/compose?to=hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> >
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> > Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> > +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> > >
> > > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> > toolkits, at
> > > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> > even that wasn't
> > > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> > used it?
> >
> > If they didn't release it, no one could use it. So
> > why did they not
> > release it?
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> 312-444-2124
> Skype: f3l.headhunter
> Casa: 8043901
>
>
>


-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 21:12:37 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:12:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324411957.22414.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Have a look at the real workstation Window System problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#cite_ref-23

Having said that, still the Window system in the A500 was ahead of its time so you might say it could run in BBC-Micro systems, like 32016 as VDU across the TUBE ULA but HW backwards compatibility as well!

There is a book refereed to that as well who details the Archimedes A500 architecture If my memory serves still:
http://www.zxdesign.info/book/bookAnnounce.shtml

See other projects have included this technologies as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#Set-Top_boxes

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37



On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View





If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 





It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).





Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 21:30:53 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:30:53 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_dRNG7jC4RC5OodZsRT2rCW0Hg6A-J_URRNgKJ2o3NNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324413053.25354.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Thanks for the message but don't be troubled:

http://books.google.com.co/books?id=xIujg_rkEX8C

http://books.google.com.co/books?id=n7eVRz6edrMC&lpg=PA62&dq=jvideo%20xerox&pg=PA61#v=onepage&q&f=false

I think the times changes as so that projects evolve, but still they are the research field, and not still in the market, are they dead?

--- El mar, 20/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 20 de diciembre, 2011 15:26

I just can't be excited about dead Operating systems, running on 8mhz hardware.
not the stuff for me tough.
I'm sure it is *your* coup of tea....
but I sort of feel spammed by it...




On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
Have a look at the real workstation Window System problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#cite_ref-23



Having said that, still the Window system in the A500 was ahead of its time so you might say it could run in BBC-Micro systems, like 32016 as VDU across the TUBE ULA but HW backwards compatibility as well!

There is a book refereed to that as well who details the Archimedes A500 architecture If my memory serves still:


http://www.zxdesign.info/book/bookAnnounce.shtml

See other projects have included this technologies as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#Set-Top_boxes



Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37





On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:




Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View







If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 







It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).







Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901





-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Dec 23 17:51:15 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 16:51:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_dRNG7jC4RC5OodZsRT2rCW0Hg6A-J_URRNgKJ2o3NNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324659075.20655.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I feel good news are not good for "dead OSes" bad news:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2011/05/a_15_computer_to_inspire_young.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16316439

Do you feel the same, isn't that the Modula-3 promotion pan-project?

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 20/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 20 de diciembre, 2011 15:26

I just can't be excited about dead Operating systems, running on 8mhz hardware.
not the stuff for me tough.
I'm sure it is *your* coup of tea....
but I sort of feel spammed by it...




On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
Have a look at the real workstation Window System problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#cite_ref-23



Having said that, still the Window system in the A500 was ahead of its time so you might say it could run in BBC-Micro systems, like 32016 as VDU across the TUBE ULA but HW backwards compatibility as well!

There is a book refereed to that as well who details the Archimedes A500 architecture If my memory serves still:


http://www.zxdesign.info/book/bookAnnounce.shtml

See other projects have included this technologies as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#Set-Top_boxes



Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37





On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:




Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View







If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 







It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).







Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901





-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Dec 30 16:27:58 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:27:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] =?iso-8859-1?q?About_ARM_=B5-PC?=
Message-ID: <1325258878.41283.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
inf act, I remember working on installing a 386 VM library for Linux, and it can be run in ARM, etc:
http://www.nocrew.org/software/a386

So for question 
1) Basically a translation library to Linux kernel interrupts
2) An e.g a386 abstracted instruction set layer over bare HW (a VM implementation native on Risc OS).

I guess the debate between both worlds is open by Tanenbaum and Torvalds on kernel types, but in any event, if that's good for Linux kernel to run on top of any other system, I would be open to debate (a Micro-kernel), but I guess for OS research you can run pretty much Linux on a W95 system, like eCos, but this isn't very efficient I guess in terms you are asking (as to what to expect for context switching, etc).

Thanks in advance


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Dec 30 16:41:08 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:41:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] =?iso-8859-1?q?About_ARM_=B5-PC?=
In-Reply-To: <1325258878.41283.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1325259668.52270.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Sorry for the wrong text message but in fact what I wanted to let you know is that a Micro-Kernel has been worked out in Modula-3 for AIX, OS/2 and AS400 besides licensed for ARM and it resulted in a U$ 2 bn effort.
I guess if that's the case we would need to ask what about that project.
I hope its true, then it is sound to think on layering everything into it, including every OS mentioned here.
Thanks in advance

--- El vie, 30/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: [M3devel] About ARM ?-PC
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: viernes, 30 de diciembre, 2011 10:27
> Hi all:
> inf act, I remember working on installing a 386 VM library
> for Linux, and it can be run in ARM, etc:
> http://www.nocrew.org/software/a386
> 
> So for question 
> 1) Basically a translation library to Linux kernel
> interrupts
> 2) An e.g a386 abstracted instruction set layer over bare
> HW (a VM implementation native on Risc OS).
> 
> I guess the debate between both worlds is open by Tanenbaum
> and Torvalds on kernel types, but in any event, if that's
> good for Linux kernel to run on top of any other system, I
> would be open to debate (a Micro-kernel), but I guess for OS
> research you can run pretty much Linux on a W95 system, like
> eCos, but this isn't very efficient I guess in terms you are
> asking (as to what to expect for context switching, etc).
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sat Dec  3 22:58:53 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 21:58:53 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Message-ID: <1322949533.85703.YahooMailClassic@web29709.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf

 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.

Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.

I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).

If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).

And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:
http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf

See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:
http://bellard.org/jslinux

Thanks in advance




From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sun Dec  4 01:51:31 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software? "fiasco", where everything on it is usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



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From jay.krell at cornell.edu  Sun Dec  4 02:03:46 2011
From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 01:03:46 +0000
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>


I agree based on the year, it is probably not very valuable.It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be a big complete working system.It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.  Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operatingsystem are drivers, and their surrounding framework.There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.It is a lot of work. A lot. I have to run. - Jay Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software  "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance







-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



 		 	   		  
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Sun Dec  4 02:50:29 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 01:50:29 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1322963429.44627.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Dr. Nelson (of course by the time of his thesis was the pinnacle of AI developments) was and is very ahead of its time (still you can argue that).
Of course ESC/Modula-3 and specifically data abstraction and information hiding verification is so much ahead of our times, that is anything but using the available technology is as many years as DEC-SRC collaborators on ESC programmers plus a number of years of that had not been available.
By that time say in many years we would have a complete system if we were enough smart to scale it to network object verification technology, etc. And consider x-kernel influenced by DEC-SRC Taos, etc, so if you add both sums, I happen to think that is is already ahead of its time. Also consider, several DEC-SRC members are Turing awards and who know whom more by the time we finish it.

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:

De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: RE: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:03




I agree based on the year, it is probably?not very valuable.
It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be?a big complete working system.
It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.
?
?
Either?way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an?operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver?related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
It is a lot of work. A lot.
?
I have to run.
?- Jay?
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software? "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



 		 	   		  
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Mon Dec  5 23:41:26 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2011 22:41:26 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1322963429.44627.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323124886.71038.YahooMailClassic@web29707.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Given the existence of an Obliq port over CORBA, and the current (perhaps broken) NetObj implementation, and the probable port on Modula-3 x-kernel, then it has sense to actually provide over that number of platforms a Modula-3 to Obliq JIT interpreter, since there already several virtual machines for it and yet two of them (one JIT) with gcc target and based interpreter.
As it happens x-kernel has been ported in the past for OSF/1, Linux and Solaris, I guess if we can host that ports in a cm3/m3-avoca and cm3/m3-sys/m3toobliq then we can given Obliq available packages have an CM3-IDE Obliq installation part to execute code everywhere not just in local machine, with graphics, etc.
If so a question would be Elego willing to link DEC-SRC research reports and technical notes on the Obliq stuff (SRC-122., SRC-128A, SRC-129, SRC-130A, SRC-138, SRC-141A, SRC-142, SRC-48 and SRC-TN-1997-029)
Let me know your opinions for such a thing.

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: felipevaldez at gmail.com, "Jay K" <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:50

Hi all:
Dr. Nelson (of course by the time of his thesis was the pinnacle of AI developments) was and is very ahead of its time (still you can argue that).
Of course ESC/Modula-3 and specifically data abstraction and information hiding verification is so much ahead of our times, that is anything but using the available technology is as many years as DEC-SRC collaborators on ESC programmers plus a number of years of that had not been available.
By that time say in many years we would have a complete system if we were enough smart to scale it to network object verification technology, etc. And consider x-kernel influenced by DEC-SRC Taos, etc, so if you add both sums, I happen to think that is is already ahead of its time. Also consider, several DEC-SRC members are Turing awards and who know whom more by the time we finish it.

Thanks in
 advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:

De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: RE: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:03




I agree based on the year, it is probably?not very valuable.
It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be?a big complete working system.
It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.
?
?
Either?way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an?operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver?related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
It is a lot of work. A lot.
?
I have to run.
?- Jay?
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).
So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?
The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we
 don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software? "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46



On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf







whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean


let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.


I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,

as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.





I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).





If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).





And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:



http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901



 		 	   		  
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From dragisha at m3w.org  Wed Dec  7 21:02:40 2011
From: dragisha at m3w.org (=?utf-8?Q?Dragi=C5=A1a_Duri=C4=87?=)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 21:02:40 +0100
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>

The best idea for non-C in operating systems, it looks to me - is to make it possible to do framework things like network protocol, device driver, filesystem - in said non-C.

On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:03 AM, Jay K wrote:

> Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operating
> system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
> There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
> It is a lot of work. A lot.

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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec  7 21:20:46 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 20:20:46 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-919SNLhLLBL4XLbj8nrugb5MV+xhmrBUyVDziOHzF7Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323289246.66005.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi:
yes, uhm I think I see your point is, whether we would be using a Modula-3 OS or not in daily use, and as it happens there was a project on that for ARM based workstation, but didn't panned out, due slow down in performance in HW intrinsics, and some Company's budgeting concerns made it not to be? completed.
It was supposed to be a 2k Acorn Archimedes:
http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/20010824_Not_A_RISC_By_Thursday

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.acorn/browse_thread/thread/6bc26531c038159f/b387b6b1c9abbfd7

This budget is the same others companies tried to achieve with Gnu/Linux, and GNU/Hurd was supposed to be a modern of the day OS, wih Mach based microkernel:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fiel1%2F2225%2F1156%2F00028082.pdf%3Farnumber%3D28082&authDecision=-203

Even you could get one working with a TUBE co-processor of the BBC Micro I believe, so you could put a very cheap system with enough productivity to be a workstation:
http://www.osnews.com/thread?189153

DEC tried sending RR and VR via mail service, but you ca judge whether or not they achieved their goal. IMHO it did vastly, since you couldn't get such a good system in the market place of the day

BTW, many people are putting their efforts on reviving the BBC in some time ago.

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 5/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: lunes, 5 de diciembre, 2011 18:33

READ: I WANT STUFF FOR FREE.GIVE ME STUFF

On Mon, Dec 5, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
Given the existence of an Obliq port over CORBA, and the current (perhaps broken) NetObj implementation, and the probable port on Modula-3 x-kernel, then it has sense to actually provide over that number of platforms a Modula-3 to Obliq JIT interpreter, since there already several virtual machines for it and yet two of them (one JIT) with gcc target and based interpreter.


As it happens x-kernel has been ported in the past for OSF/1, Linux and Solaris, I guess if we can host that ports in a cm3/m3-avoca and cm3/m3-sys/m3toobliq then we can given Obliq available packages have an CM3-IDE Obliq installation part to execute code everywhere not just in local machine, with graphics, etc.


If so a question would be Elego willing to link DEC-SRC research reports and technical notes on the Obliq stuff (SRC-122., SRC-128A, SRC-129, SRC-130A, SRC-138,
 SRC-141A, SRC-142, SRC-48 and SRC-TN-1997-029)
Let me know your opinions for such a thing.

Thanks in advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: felipevaldez at gmail.com, "Jay K" <jay.krell at cornell.edu>


CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:50



Hi all:
Dr. Nelson (of course
 by the time of his thesis was the pinnacle of AI developments) was and is very ahead of its time (still you can argue that).
Of course ESC/Modula-3 and specifically data abstraction and information hiding verification is so much ahead of our times, that is anything but using the available technology is as many years as DEC-SRC collaborators on ESC programmers plus a number of years of that had not been available.


By that time say in many years we would have a complete system if we were enough smart to scale it to network object verification technology, etc. And consider x-kernel influenced by DEC-SRC Taos, etc, so if you add both sums, I happen to think that is is already ahead of its time. Also consider, several DEC-SRC members are Turing awards and who know whom more by the time we finish it.



Thanks in
 advance

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:



De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: RE: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, felipevaldez at gmail.com


CC: "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 20:03




I agree based on the year, it is probably not very valuable.
It is also, I'm sorry, "just" a Ph. D. thesis. It might be a big complete working system.
It might be a barely working prototype, just enough to suggest some lessons learned.


 
 
Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.


It is a lot of work. A lot.
 
I have to run.
 - Jay 
Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2011 00:51:31 +0000
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es
To: felipevaldez at gmail.com


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Subject: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel



Hi all:
How can you say a 20 years time is not a small gap, did you consider that by this time we had been on 20 years of Software Crisis (as we happen to have today, and yet GNU/Linux was created by that time), yet this guys new we had something to do in Optical Fiber high speed networks, and also 10 years of artificial intelligence lack of invention by the time (as we had 30 years a couple of years ago of productivity-less research).


So basically this time is reduced for me if you consider the previous times also a little, but anyway, I give you a better answer if one doesn't know who used it? What is that suppose to mean, that nobody used it?


The same is true for the 30 of lack of artificial intelligence and 40 years of software crisis, if we
 don't get things done quickly will be arriving at a software  "fiasco", where everything on it is
 usable, and system perform quickly than never but can't get systems to work in a efficient fashion (CPU overheating).

Thanks in advance 

--- El s?b, 3/12/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel


Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: s?bado, 3 de diciembre, 2011 18:46





On Sat, Dec 3, 2011 at 4:58 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

whether we want it or not, perhaps the best opportunity we have is already a complete operating operating system developed in Modula-3 for developing network applications in http://arizona.openrepository.com/arizona/bitstream/10150/185158/1/azu_td_9103022_sip1_m.pdf









whether you like it or not that OS is probably incompatible with everything out there, and is probably unsuitable for production work.but perhap's I'm just being mean for the sake of being mean




let's have a look at it.


...

oh, goodie!an article 20 years old.or, 200, in internet years.




I've lost interest already.
after further examination, I can see it is not only ancient, is seems to be very interesting...
however, don't you have anything, more recent?,



as in, not previous-century?








 for Linux, OSF, etc, under the x-kernel.



Can we create a branch to develop operating system engine line (you know we don't need any more platforms if we happen to have what is really on any network environment a browser and a file system service), for developing GUIs, things and everybody could license it in whatever license whoever wants to use it might be used safely in any environment, you don't like DEC licenses appearance OK, but for me but if anyone likes them then he can develop in a system that still runs code in a DEC environment and then since everything are objects moving around like process one can define them absolutely license-independent.







I think OS developers in everywhere would love it (I remember an OOP class, where the class Prof. was explaining whether creating an OS  would be called a good class final project, and he seemed to think it wasn't, based on a former classmate of him thought that it was).







If we could create an enough smart environment then one could think in that again. I know several browsers including one outside of DEC that would be appealing to accomplish the work (yes a complete browser engine system in Modula-3).







And the project will be hosting the Obliq based tools in that browser for others as well, but mainly educational/research services for anyone in the net with a bright idea for a system application or just want to experiment with a Modula-3 Obliq super-optimizer at source level or whatever want to do it separately as well:





http://www.cs.utexas.edu/ftp/techreports/tr92-27.pdf



See for example see for M-F4 and G-V8:

http://bellard.org/jslinux



Thanks in advance








-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901





 		 	   		  



-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901






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From jay.krell at cornell.edu  Thu Dec  8 02:04:55 2011
From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay)
Date: Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
	<1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>
Message-ID: <9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>

Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient & portable.

But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..

?

 - Jay (phone)

On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:02 PM, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> wrote:

> The best idea for non-C in operating systems, it looks to me - is to make it possible to do framework things like network protocol, device driver, filesystem - in said non-C.
> 
> On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:03 AM, Jay K wrote:
> 
>> Either way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an operating
>> system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
>> There are some less-driver related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
>> It is a lot of work. A lot.
> 
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Dec  8 05:31:51 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 04:31:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323318711.74369.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
indeed the ARM ARX OS had PC emulation support (read a 8088-like CPU, does anyone offer that today, or just companies like those DEC and Acorn, would 'afford'), and yet all the computation was inside RISC chip and since it was microkernel, it sent VDU calls across the tube at user-level (GKS), so basically yes,? you had the opportunity with that kind of multi-server OS to make everything more usable in the user-land.
I suspect this sounds like we want that OS in the three, but then anyway, we would need some work to debug the OS before we got into other OSes, I mean? 'libkernelc' is a potential target for deployment of more thing slike the ARX use of WORm disks FS, etc.
Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 7/12/11, Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu> escribi?:

De: Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Dragi?a Duri?" <dragisha at m3w.org>
CC: "Jay K" <jay.krell at cornell.edu>, "<dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>" <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>, "<felipevaldez at gmail.com>" <felipevaldez at gmail.com>, "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 7 de diciembre, 2011 20:04

Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient & portable.
But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..

?
?- Jay (phone)
On Dec 7, 2011, at 12:02 PM, Dragi?a Duri? <dragisha at m3w.org> wrote:

The best idea for non-C in operating systems, it looks to me - is to make it possible to do framework things like network protocol, device driver, filesystem - in said non-C.
On Dec 4, 2011, at 2:03 AM, Jay K wrote:
Either?way, please remember, that some of the critical parts of an?operating
system are drivers, and their surrounding framework.
There are some less-driver?related aspects, like a file system, a networking stack, a scheduler.
It is a lot of work. A lot.
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From dknoto at next.com.pl  Thu Dec  8 07:55:38 2011
From: dknoto at next.com.pl (Dariusz =?UTF-8?B?S25vY2nFhHNraQ==?=)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 07:55:38 +0100
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_t+CK4ecscY5+QDSn3Or_cr7128wuHK8swwiBduTPbwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1322959891.85191.YahooMailClassic@web29701.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
	<COL101-W16625E0FEAF38C557E04B3E6B40@phx.gbl>
	<1AA5DB1A-553A-4FA9-A354-819C2F33413B@m3w.org>
	<9B268694-448C-4F4C-94BE-EA51BF7BDA06@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20111208075538.5ce9cb1a.dknoto@next.com.pl>

On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu> wrote:

> Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient & portable.
> 
> But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..
> 
What do you think about  project L4? This is small efficient microkernel written
in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite to Modula-3. All drivers can
be run in user space.

DKnoto.

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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Thu Dec  8 13:47:51 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 12:47:51 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <20111208075538.5ce9cb1a.dknoto@next.com.pl>
Message-ID: <1323348471.45492.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels, in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7 with Jigsaw framework:
http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

called Etyma
and a kind of application for C++:
http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to replace everything by Modula-3 code like:
ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

Thanks in advance

--- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl> escribi?:

> De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55
> On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
> Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or Linux
> kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written in
> Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe & efficient
> & portable.
> > 
> > But better yet is to provide for user mode drivers..
> > 
> What do you think about  project L4? This is small
> efficient microkernel written
> in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite to
> Modula-3. All drivers can
> be run in user space.
> 
> DKnoto.
> 
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 15:38:18 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 14:38:18 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323348471.45492.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323787098.37802.YahooMailClassic@web29719.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:
http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2

And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies, I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API, so I bet you could to equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
Thanks in advance 

--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47
> Hi all:
> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,
> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in
> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7
> with Jigsaw framework:
> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz
> 
> called Etyma
> and a kind of application for C++:
> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf
> 
> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to
> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:
> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> escribi?:
> 
> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,
> AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55
> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800
> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or
> Linux
> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written
> in
> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &
> efficient
> > & portable.
> > > 
> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode
> drivers..
> > > 
> > What do you think about  project L4? This is
> small
> > efficient microkernel written
> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite
> to
> > Modula-3. All drivers can
> > be run in user space.
> > 
> > DKnoto.
> > 
> >
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 22:54:50 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 21:54:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_AKWpukhia3L0A=ejWN_hTXc27cntxW7WdfOZS30c25Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I meant that wherever you had that OS, either Acorn, Olivetti was the nest of the best programming language ever (well let's say for its time having in account that they planned it to be ten years ahead of the current use of that systems, say Java 1996), of course followed that it should be? at the front some years ago (2006) and say that some parts were not released as today. 
I see the business model as a consequence of the product not the market place, if it were so, then why they had the politics of something ahead of its time 5 to 10 years, it would be contradictory.
If you want to compare what you some OS companies are trying to do are not near of that, with Hypervisors, etc systems that would need 60 years of work of a man, and you already have that, why do you think they want to do so? 
But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI toolkits, at Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that even that wasn't released as well, what does that mean, that nobody used it?
Thanks in advance


--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From hendrik at topoi.pooq.com  Tue Dec 13 23:38:48 2011
From: hendrik at topoi.pooq.com (Hendrik Boom)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 17:38:48 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_AKWpukhia3L0A=ejWN_hTXc27cntxW7WdfOZS30c25Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>

On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
>
> But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI toolkits, at 
> Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that even that wasn't 
> released as well, what does that mean, that nobody used it?

If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So why did they not 
release it?

-- hendrik


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 23:36:50 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:36:50 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323813290.48112.YahooMailClassic@web29717.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323815810.24590.YahooMailClassic@web29718.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I give you own example of it:
http://blip.tv/the-rotor-show/video-mail-retrieval-demo-133495

http://web.archive.org/web/19970225153813/http://www.orl.co.uk/abstracts.html

http://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathangibbons

I guess is the same question for where are the video tutorials, well there they are.

And still you are asking why it hasn't been marketed? Look what Software crisis is, and what does that mean practically, what one needs to do to be finished (Tip see Japanese 5th generation of computers).

But let's start thinking how can you put a class room of Modula-like systems in the video browser. From a bunch of about 6 millions lines of code. That's why I always think in Mentor aid material

Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 16:54

Hi all:
I meant that wherever you had that OS, either Acorn, Olivetti was the nest of the best programming language ever (well let's say for its time having in account that they planned it to be ten years ahead of the current use of that systems, say Java 1996), of course followed that it should be? at the front some years ago (2006) and say that some parts were not released as today. 
I see the business model as a consequence of the product not the market place, if it were so, then why they had the politics of something ahead of its time 5 to 10 years, it would be contradictory.
If you want to compare what you some OS companies are trying to do are not near of that, with Hypervisors, etc systems that would need 60 years of work of a man, and you already have that, why do you think they want to do so? 
But the best is still unknown they worked
 hard in UI toolkits, at Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that even that wasn't released as well, what does that mean, that nobody used it?
Thanks in advance


--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
 wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 13 23:58:24 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2011 22:58:24 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <1323817104.20924.YahooMailClassic@web29716.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
If they weren't used why would you construct workstation based around the idea, Hector (three headed Lexicographer Workstation) project at DEC-SRC/Oxford-UP, and Pandora Box at Olivetti-RL/Cambridge-UCL/ED:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/freeabs_all.jsp?arnumber=168200

If that's a experience didn't do any good to be their labs as in DEC-SRC and Universities dream workstations, I'm a philosopher. but whether they asked it once again one doesn't know. How can you say that.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:

> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> >
> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> toolkits, at 
> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> even that wasn't 
> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> used it?
> 
> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So
> why did they not 
> release it?
> 
> -- hendrik
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec 14 02:28:57 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 01:28:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_AKWpukhia3L0A=ejWN_hTXc27cntxW7WdfOZS30c25Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1323826137.98149.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
among others motivations was to build a Educational Standard Workstation for High schools in the European Educational Standard:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=RYH7o-4ykmMC&lpg=PA22&ots=n9hP3BGn6Z&dq=european%20educational%20standard%20acorn%20olivetti&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

But Olivetti ported it to the Olivetti PC, so how can you say why they wanted to do that way the WS?
The things have changed IA32-AMD64 is severely threatened by the ARM ecosystem, and guess what all of their development tools (Simulators, and some other standards by Acorn) are based originals of Acorn.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec 14 20:56:26 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:56:26 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323826137.98149.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323892586.58297.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
perhaps we are stalled in what VM or infrastructure we should rely onto that, I see this ones had in account Modula-3 execution (nonetheless Oberon was a lot copied in JVM), and Oberon and Modula-2 are languages with many similarities with Modula-3:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-525.pdf

But yet another example of unreleased though used Modula- like code was in BNR Pascal (aka Modular Pascal), this was a dialect in use and a process to reunite with Modula-3, also ths guys worked hard in hard-to solve problems, like Voice oriented WS (PX) and their own XMS OS:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/52/35718/01695330.pdf

http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

They coded 5 MLOC of that pascal version. If we could effectively reunite both systems in the type systems, and sort out other differences as well, eventually we would need to somehow diminish the software they built to the bare minimum, but get a lot of good stuff from the languages as well as the kernels they did:
http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 20:28

Hi all:
among others motivations was to build a Educational Standard Workstation for High schools in the European Educational Standard:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=RYH7o-4ykmMC&lpg=PA22&ots=n9hP3BGn6Z&dq=european%20educational%20standard%20acorn%20olivetti&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

But Olivetti ported it to the Olivetti PC, so how can you say why they wanted to do that way the WS?
The things have changed IA32-AMD64 is severely threatened by the ARM ecosystem, and guess what all of their development tools (Simulators, and some other standards by Acorn) are based originals of Acorn.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe
 valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Wed Dec 14 22:20:57 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 21:20:57 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1323892586.58297.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1323897657.84594.YahooMailClassic@web29702.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
and yet one again x-thing appears out of curiosity, the xvm eXtensible Vitual Machine from the author:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~tlh20/slides/tim-harris-peg2-4-1-5-slides.ppt

I guess the intended point of this would this define a language for defining the machine, like the Japanese 5th Generation of Computers, with KL a logical language sized in terms of MLIPS Logical Inferences Per Second, unfortunately the software substrate didn't do any good for their results, I bet what would happen in our days software with such a proposal.
Thanks in advance

--- El mi?, 14/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: mi?rcoles, 14 de diciembre, 2011 14:56

Hi all:
perhaps we are stalled in what VM or infrastructure we should rely onto that, I see this ones had in account Modula-3 execution (nonetheless Oberon was a lot copied in JVM), and Oberon and Modula-2 are languages with many similarities with Modula-3:
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-525.pdf

But yet another example of unreleased though used Modula- like code was in BNR Pascal (aka Modular Pascal), this was a dialect in use and a process to reunite with Modula-3, also ths guys worked hard in hard-to solve problems, like Voice oriented WS (PX) and their own XMS OS:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/52/35718/01695330.pdf

http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

They coded 5 MLOC of that pascal version. If we could effectively reunite both systems in the type systems, and sort out other differences as
 well, eventually we would need to somehow diminish the software they built to the bare minimum, but get a lot of good stuff from the languages as well as the kernels they did:
http://web.ncf.ca/andre/publications/SyntheticSpeech.pdf

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "felipe valdez" <dataf4l at gmail.com>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 20:28

Hi all:
among others motivations was to build a Educational Standard Workstation for High schools in the European Educational Standard:
http://books.google.com.co/books?id=RYH7o-4ykmMC&lpg=PA22&ots=n9hP3BGn6Z&dq=european%20educational%20standard%20acorn%20olivetti&pg=PA22#v=onepage&q&f=false

But Olivetti ported it to the Olivetti PC, so how can you say why they wanted to do that way the WS?
The things have changed IA32-AMD64 is severely threatened by the ARM ecosystem, and guess what all of their development tools (Simulators, and some other standards by Acorn) are based originals of Acorn.

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 13/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe
 valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 12:14



On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

But let yet one more time me to say we already the best OS in 80's:

unix?
oh!, Acorn  (never heard of it)





"say we already the best OS in 80's:" => I think you miss the verb there"

http://www.therealcompany.com/?pg=2



And if we care about that thuis thing changes everything, most of this guys ended up in SUN among other companies,
and Acorn is better than the SUN workstations of its time.. because...?

  I know they worked hard in specification of the OS API,  

so I bet you could to

I bet anyone could.
but why would they?what is the motivation?the business model? 

 equal other MicroKernel projects, again if you add up both things the best OS in 80's the best Programming Language in the 1990's and something else yet to be written.
 


Thanks in advance



--- El jue, 8/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:



> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Dariusz Knoci?ski" <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 07:47

> Hi all:

> then if one is able to recode the existing Modular kernels,

> in one framework, there is possibility that you can build in

> the language of your preference, Modula-3 and now Java 7

> with Jigsaw framework:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/flux/papers/banavar-thesis.ps.gz

>

> called Etyma

> and a kind of application for C++:

> http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/techreports/docs/ncstrl.utah_cs/UUCS-93-006/UUCS-93-006.pdf

>

> Anyway, to have a outside use of this, would be nice to

> replace everything by Modula-3 code like:

> ftp://asg3.andrew.cmu.edu/pub/AUIS/PAPERS/conf/1992/Orgass.ps

>

> Thanks in advance

>

> --- El jue, 8/12/11, Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> escribi?:

>

> > De: Dariusz Knoci?ski <dknoto at next.com.pl>

> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,

> AVOCA, in x-kernel

> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> > Fecha: jueves, 8 de diciembre, 2011 01:55

> > On Wed, 7 Dec 2011 17:04:55 -0800

> > Jay <jay.krell at cornell.edu>

> > wrote:

> >

> > > Interesting project: port libm3core to NT or

> Linux

> > kernel, so drivers for those systems can be written

> in

> > Modula-3. Then show how it is both safe &

> efficient

> > & portable.

> > >

> > > But better yet is to provide for user mode

> drivers..

> > >

> > What do you think about  project L4? This is

> small

> > efficient microkernel written

> > in C++. I think, that in one year it can by rewrite

> to

> > Modula-3. All drivers can

> > be run in user space.

> >

> > DKnoto.

> >

> >

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Mon Dec 19 19:08:28 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 18:08:28 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>
Message-ID: <1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View

If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701

Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:
http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf

But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).

Thanks in advance 

--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:

> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> >
> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> toolkits, at 
> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> even that wasn't 
> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> used it?
> 
> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So
> why did they not 
> release it?
> 
> -- hendrik
> 


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 01:17:05 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:17:05 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1324340225.14455.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I think the case is they just hacked the system with a BSD kernel and Modula and C runtime to their 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RISC_iX#A680_Technical_Publishing_System

I guess this was the "clone" Acorn Unix ARX, that is the way to not release the ARX; wbut anyway it were never released, though Risc iX saw the light of the market:
http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Manuals/Acorn_TechnicalPublishingSystemTRMPt1.pdf

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Manuals/Acorn_TechnicalPublishingSystemTRMPt2.pdf

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 13:08
> Hi all:
> Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX
> Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the
> developer machines):
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View
> 
> If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were
> very important as you can see in this 01:30 video
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701
> 
> Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:
> 
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
> 
> It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost
> issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling
> machines were not ready for its system:
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf
> 
> But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame,
> since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip
> (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost
> relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons
> (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).
> 
> Thanks in advance 
> 
> --- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> escribi?:
> 
> > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3,
> AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> > +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> > >
> > > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in
> UI
> > toolkits, at 
> > > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and
> that
> > even that wasn't 
> > > released as well, what does that mean, that
> nobody
> > used it?
> > 
> > If they didn't release it, no one could use it. 
> So
> > why did they not 
> > release it?
> > 
> > -- hendrik
> >
> 


From dataf4l at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 01:37:55 2011
From: dataf4l at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 19:37:55 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <20111213223848.GA8603@topoi.pooq.com>
	<1324318108.86141.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
> Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides
> 100 or so developers on the developer machines):
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View
>
> If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important
> as you can see in this 01:30 video
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701
>
> Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:
>
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
>

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.



>
> It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather
> than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its
> system:
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf
>
> But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a
> pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that
> fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some
> other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:
>
> > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> > +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> > >
> > > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> > toolkits, at
> > > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> > even that wasn't
> > > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> > used it?
> >
> > If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So
> > why did they not
> > release it?
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
>



-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 01:57:08 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 00:57:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324342628.83516.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:

I think the same applies for the all market of the day, still ARX was on the market through some other companies products, how can you be so sure, it wasn't that as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes#Significance_and_impact

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37



On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View





If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 





It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).





Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dataf4l at gmail.com  Tue Dec 20 05:27:06 2011
From: dataf4l at gmail.com (felipe valdez)
Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2011 23:27:06 -0500
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <1324342628.83516.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
References: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>
	<1324342628.83516.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAGi-_--8SDwrb6NU-RFFPogBuWhWAy3gBGv4uMsUQpT9YFtP+g@mail.gmail.com>

Despite a technical edge[*citation
needed<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed>
*], the Archimedes only ever met a moderate success beyond the education
sector, becoming a 'minority' platform outside of certain niche markets.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:57 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:

> Hi all:
>
> I think the same applies for the all market of the day, still ARX was on
> the market through some other companies products, how can you be so sure,
> it wasn't that as well:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Archimedes#Significance_and_impact
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El *lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>* escribi?:
>
>
> De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <
> dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>> wrote:
>
> Hi all:
> Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides
> 100 or so developers on the developer machines):
>
> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View
>
> If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important
> as you can see in this 01:30 video
>
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701
>
> Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:
>
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html
>
>
> "CPU Clock8MHz"
>
> alt+f4.
>
>
>
> It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather
> than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its
> system:
> http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf
>
> But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a
> pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that
> fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some
> other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com<http://mc/compose?to=hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>>
> escribi?:
>
> > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com<http://mc/compose?to=hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> >
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> > Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38
> > On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM
> > +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
> > >
> > > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI
> > toolkits, at
> > > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that
> > even that wasn't
> > > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody
> > used it?
> >
> > If they didn't release it, no one could use it. So
> > why did they not
> > release it?
> >
> > -- hendrik
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> 312-444-2124
> Skype: f3l.headhunter
> Casa: 8043901
>
>
>


-- 
312-444-2124
Skype: f3l.headhunter
Casa: 8043901
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 21:12:37 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:12:37 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_KTigsb5K7Euam_sD3hz_2bnqrXZPQoBdwfoNoOYCr1w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324411957.22414.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Have a look at the real workstation Window System problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#cite_ref-23

Having said that, still the Window system in the A500 was ahead of its time so you might say it could run in BBC-Micro systems, like 32016 as VDU across the TUBE ULA but HW backwards compatibility as well!

There is a book refereed to that as well who details the Archimedes A500 architecture If my memory serves still:
http://www.zxdesign.info/book/bookAnnounce.shtml

See other projects have included this technologies as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#Set-Top_boxes

Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37



On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View





If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 





It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).





Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Tue Dec 20 21:30:53 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:30:53 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_dRNG7jC4RC5OodZsRT2rCW0Hg6A-J_URRNgKJ2o3NNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324413053.25354.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Thanks for the message but don't be troubled:

http://books.google.com.co/books?id=xIujg_rkEX8C

http://books.google.com.co/books?id=n7eVRz6edrMC&lpg=PA62&dq=jvideo%20xerox&pg=PA61#v=onepage&q&f=false

I think the times changes as so that projects evolve, but still they are the research field, and not still in the market, are they dead?

--- El mar, 20/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 20 de diciembre, 2011 15:26

I just can't be excited about dead Operating systems, running on 8mhz hardware.
not the stuff for me tough.
I'm sure it is *your* coup of tea....
but I sort of feel spammed by it...




On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
Have a look at the real workstation Window System problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#cite_ref-23



Having said that, still the Window system in the A500 was ahead of its time so you might say it could run in BBC-Micro systems, like 32016 as VDU across the TUBE ULA but HW backwards compatibility as well!

There is a book refereed to that as well who details the Archimedes A500 architecture If my memory serves still:


http://www.zxdesign.info/book/bookAnnounce.shtml

See other projects have included this technologies as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#Set-Top_boxes



Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37





On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:




Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View







If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 







It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).







Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901





-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Dec 23 17:51:15 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2011 16:51:15 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
In-Reply-To: <CAGi-_-_dRNG7jC4RC5OodZsRT2rCW0Hg6A-J_URRNgKJ2o3NNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1324659075.20655.YahooMailClassic@web29705.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
I feel good news are not good for "dead OSes" bad news:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/rorycellanjones/2011/05/a_15_computer_to_inspire_young.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16316439

Do you feel the same, isn't that the Modula-3 promotion pan-project?

Thanks in advance

--- El mar, 20/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:

De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
Fecha: martes, 20 de diciembre, 2011 15:26

I just can't be excited about dead Operating systems, running on 8mhz hardware.
not the stuff for me tough.
I'm sure it is *your* coup of tea....
but I sort of feel spammed by it...




On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:


Hi all:
Have a look at the real workstation Window System problem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#cite_ref-23



Having said that, still the Window system in the A500 was ahead of its time so you might say it could run in BBC-Micro systems, like 32016 as VDU across the TUBE ULA but HW backwards compatibility as well!

There is a book refereed to that as well who details the Archimedes A500 architecture If my memory serves still:


http://www.zxdesign.info/book/bookAnnounce.shtml

See other projects have included this technologies as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acorn_Computers#Set-Top_boxes



Thanks in advance

--- El lun, 19/12/11, felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com> escribi?:



De: felipe valdez <dataf4l at gmail.com>
Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel
Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>


CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
Fecha: lunes, 19 de diciembre, 2011 19:37





On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> wrote:




Hi all:

Well indeed, that they sell like 200 copies of ARX Acorn/Olivetti (besides 100 or so developers on the developer machines):

http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?set=custom&viewmonth=200909&viewday=&forum_name=png-mng-implement&style=nested&max_rows=75&submit=Change+View







If so, they didn't release because of the cost issues were very important as you can see in this 01:30 video



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11082701



Anyway the history behind that system is on this machine:



http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/Computers/A500.html

"CPU Clock8MHz"

alt+f4.

 







It seemed that the Acorn had not released because of cost issues rather than marketing reasons, since the selling machines were not ready for its system:

http://acorn.chriswhy.co.uk/docs/Acorn/Tech/Acorn_FastA500s.pdf



But the compiler (I think called CAMEL) was not to blame, since it had a pretty good performance in terms of the chip (yeah it was but even not that fast for such machines cost relation). Later it wasn't released for some other reasons (would I know why, I guess they just took C route).







Thanks in advance



--- El mar, 13/12/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com> escribi?:



> De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>

> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Yet Another OS in Modula-3, AVOCA, in x-kernel

> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com

> Fecha: martes, 13 de diciembre, 2011 17:38

> On Tue, Dec 13, 2011 at 09:54:50PM

> +0000, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:

> >

> > But the best is still unknown they worked hard in UI

> toolkits, at

> > Olivetti, collaborative Windowing systems, and that

> even that wasn't

> > released as well, what does that mean, that nobody

> used it?

>

> If they didn't release it, no one could use it.  So

> why did they not

> release it?

>

> -- hendrik

>




-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901





-- 
312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901


-------------- next part --------------
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From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Dec 30 16:27:58 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:27:58 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] =?iso-8859-1?q?About_ARM_=B5-PC?=
Message-ID: <1325258878.41283.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
inf act, I remember working on installing a 386 VM library for Linux, and it can be run in ARM, etc:
http://www.nocrew.org/software/a386

So for question 
1) Basically a translation library to Linux kernel interrupts
2) An e.g a386 abstracted instruction set layer over bare HW (a VM implementation native on Risc OS).

I guess the debate between both worlds is open by Tanenbaum and Torvalds on kernel types, but in any event, if that's good for Linux kernel to run on top of any other system, I would be open to debate (a Micro-kernel), but I guess for OS research you can run pretty much Linux on a W95 system, like eCos, but this isn't very efficient I guess in terms you are asking (as to what to expect for context switching, etc).

Thanks in advance


From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es  Fri Dec 30 16:41:08 2011
From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.)
Date: Fri, 30 Dec 2011 15:41:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [M3devel] =?iso-8859-1?q?About_ARM_=B5-PC?=
In-Reply-To: <1325258878.41283.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1325259668.52270.YahooMailClassic@web29703.mail.ird.yahoo.com>

Hi all:
Sorry for the wrong text message but in fact what I wanted to let you know is that a Micro-Kernel has been worked out in Modula-3 for AIX, OS/2 and AS400 besides licensed for ARM and it resulted in a U$ 2 bn effort.
I guess if that's the case we would need to ask what about that project.
I hope its true, then it is sound to think on layering everything into it, including every OS mentioned here.
Thanks in advance

--- El vie, 30/12/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribi?:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: [M3devel] About ARM ?-PC
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: viernes, 30 de diciembre, 2011 10:27
> Hi all:
> inf act, I remember working on installing a 386 VM library
> for Linux, and it can be run in ARM, etc:
> http://www.nocrew.org/software/a386
> 
> So for question 
> 1) Basically a translation library to Linux kernel
> interrupts
> 2) An e.g a386 abstracted instruction set layer over bare
> HW (a VM implementation native on Risc OS).
> 
> I guess the debate between both worlds is open by Tanenbaum
> and Torvalds on kernel types, but in any event, if that's
> good for Linux kernel to run on top of any other system, I
> would be open to debate (a Micro-kernel), but I guess for OS
> research you can run pretty much Linux on a W95 system, like
> eCos, but this isn't very efficient I guess in terms you are
> asking (as to what to expect for context switching, etc).
> 
> Thanks in advance
>