[M3devel] M3devel Digest, Vol 56, Issue 22

Mon Jun 20 21:50:22 CEST 2011

Hi, Daniel.

the discussion is not about whether or not the announced (but yet
undelivered) new windows file system, will handle such tasks. the problem is
concerning, detecting the location of an currently installed program, in a
cross platform way.

I suggested a way, by implying that "windows solves it", but what my
statement didn't attempt to convey, is that windows is a better solution
what linux/unix, as an OS, or that it is better in every other aspect, and
we should all switch (which is not the case).
I'm not surprised, that by the mere mention of the MS product, one is
immediately reminded of its flaws, by the linux/unix advocates, but still,
this is not the point at all.

2011/6/20 Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>

> Hi all:
> if that's more important I would like roll back, can you have that, can you
> save/restore it?

yes, wel call them "backups".

>  Interesting perhaps that was part of the idea of ARX OS, if you could roll
> back there is room for things like that, I think is quite possible since
> their

cabinets where printed on optical mediums, so they were "fingerprinted" with
> time stamps even such a feature requires more than optical data, requires a
> file system,

storing a timestamp, requires a filesystem, what a revolutionary concept!,
tell me more!

>  BTW, what is FS in Win7 or 8, does it have that capabilities?
>

I believe they use: create_date and modified_date, but I suppose your needs
are much more esoteric and specific than what the program solved.

I for one have used version control successfully, but not for all the files,
but rather for a small part of the filesystem, (my source files).

do you propose that having a rollback in the filesystem, is somehow related
to the postgres location determination problem in any way?

if so, please let us know, I'm curious.

> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El *lun, 20/6/11, felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>* escribió:
>
>
> De: felipe valdez <felipevaldez at gmail.com>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] M3devel Digest, Vol 56, Issue 22
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> Fecha: lunes, 20 de junio, 2011 12:52
>
>
> I also think this is a non- obvious problem.
>
> in windows, there is the registry, which is al wasy the same path, and
> indicates the actual path of the files, does a facility like this exist in
> ubuntu?
>
> what about:
>
> $ which postgres
>
> does that yield good results?
>
>
>
> 2011/6/17 <m3devel-request at elegosoft.com<http://mc/compose?to=m3devel-request@elegosoft.com>
> >
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: helo everyone - videotutorials for modula3 (Jay K)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 23:26:45 +0000
> From: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu<http://mc/compose?to=jay.krell@cornell.edu>
> >
> Subject: Re: [M3devel] helo everyone - videotutorials for modula3
> To: <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd@yahoo.es>>,
> m3devel <m3devel at elegosoft.com<http://mc/compose?to=m3devel@elegosoft.com>>,
> Olaf
> <wagner at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=wagner@elegosoft.com>>
> Message-ID: <COL101-W58C35DFF622F6A5810F33EE66A0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> > Anyway I think that is quite obvious if you want to link other libs
>
> You mean, like, to link to /usr/lib/libpostgres.so vs.
> /usr/local/lib/libpostgres.so vs. /home/jay/lib/libpostgres.so?
> Yeah, that is a problem. No good solution.
> Build-from-source is a solution, but not a good one.
> There's "origin", /etc/ld.so.conf, LD_LIBRARY_PATH, full paths in the
> executable.
> All are used, all have very significant advantages and disadvantages.
> I don't believe anyone has solved this problem.
> But I'm sure plenty of people believe they have.
>
>
> - Jay
>
> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:11:00 +0100
> From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd@yahoo.es>
> To: m3devel at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=m3devel@elegosoft.com>;
> wagner at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=wagner@elegosoft.com>;
> jay.krell at cornell.edu <http://mc/compose?to=jay.krell@cornell.edu>
> Subject: Re: [M3devel] helo everyone - videotutorials for modula3
>
> Hi all:
> yeah, you are correct the main problem might solved, but I was referring to
> was to the packaging in those cases where several implementations (not
> really Modula-3) might be available.
>
> CM problems that might have been solved too, I don't quite understand yet
> them as you. Sorry my ignorance if so. Anyway I think that is quite obvious
> if you want to link other libs you might want another model of
> pre-built-binaries or as you marked make everything compilation dependent
> procedures, which is something contrary to easy install and play setup
> (smarter developer, maybe individual packages for traditional users, that
> is, no geeks or both of them if could be fixed in the compiler setting)
> sense if I may say so.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El jue, 16/6/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu<http://mc/compose?to=jay.krell@cornell.edu>>
> escribi?:
>
> De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu<http://mc/compose?to=jay.krell@cornell.edu>
> >
> Asunto: RE: [M3devel] helo everyone - videotutorials for modula3
> Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd@yahoo.es>,
> "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com<http://mc/compose?to=m3devel@elegosoft.com>>,
> "Olaf" <wagner at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=wagner@elegosoft.com>>
> Fecha: jueves, 16 de junio, 2011 17:10
>
>
>
>
>
> Daniel, I don't understand you.
> We have pretty good support for cross builds.
> However it rests on underlying cross-compiler/linker though, and those are
> often not so easy to build/setup.
> We use whatever gcc is in $PATH, it can be a cross compiler, and you can
> set $CM3_TARGET / $M3CONFIG to point to whatever target configuration.
> If you don't want "gcc in $PATH" but instead want "target-gcc", that is
> easy and minor.
> We could support e.g. $CM3_CC.
>
> Probably it should be more like cm3 -target=foo.
> And the quake/config/cm3 code should perhaps probe for foo-gcc.
> Something like autoconf. But at each invocation, since you should be able
> to say cm3 -target=foo && cm3 -target=bar or even all at once cm3
> -target=foo,bar.
>
>
>
> cm3 knows about "all" targets.
> It knows very little about any target, really.
> But some.
> I tried to remove its knowledge about jmpbuf size but so that failed.
> This is mostly better than the typical gcc usage where you have to
> configure and build separate gcc (gcc, cc1plus, etc.) for each target.
> (However binutils/ld/as are better now, you can perhaps configure for all
> targets at once.)
> Of course, cm3cg is gcc, so it still has that problem. Yuck. This is yet
> another problem that a C-backend would fix -- no more target-specific cm3cg.
>
>
> Much of the target-specific knowledge is in Quake/config files.
> There is more than I would like, but it isn't a ton.
> It is a less than it used to be, both in cm3 and the quake/config code.
>
>
> - Jay
>
> Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 20:34:41 +0100
> From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd@yahoo.es>
> To: m3devel at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=m3devel@elegosoft.com>;
> wagner at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=wagner@elegosoft.com>;
> jay.krell at cornell.edu <http://mc/compose?to=jay.krell@cornell.edu>
> Subject: Re: [M3devel] helo everyone - videotutorials for modula3
>
> Hi all:
> but indeed if we were building such a cross-development environment like
> say eg I386_MINGW, else anything like that we would have several possible
> targets (for instance some application compiled under X Window and some
> others for native GUI, granted potentially the C compiler linker fits there)
> as AMD64_INTERIX, etc.
> Tjis cases could create a problem to package everything in just one tar
> ball, it would be more a modular thing as you say, again I coincide that the
> cost of what we can host is better, but there are this issues we could
> somehow get into play.
> Anyway, it is maybe a cross-development issue rather than native issue, but
> it certainly begs some attention if I may say so.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --- El jue, 16/6/11, Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu<http://mc/compose?to=jay.krell@cornell.edu>>
> escribi?:
>
> De: Jay K <jay.krell at cornell.edu<http://mc/compose?to=jay.krell@cornell.edu>
> >
> Asunto: RE: [M3devel] helo everyone - videotutorials for modula3
> Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd@yahoo.es>,
> "m3devel" <m3devel at elegosoft.com<http://mc/compose?to=m3devel@elegosoft.com>>,
> "Olaf" <wagner at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=wagner@elegosoft.com>>
> Fecha: jueves, 16 de junio, 2011 13:27
>
>
>
>
>
> rambly...
>
> > > >> hing -- just the headers and
> > > >> a list of symbols in libfoo.so=2C not the actual
> > > code for libfoo.so.
>
>
> I wasn't referring to "libm3.so" so much as "libc.so".
> i.e. not stuff we build, but stuff we reference.
>
> That is -- if you recall -- the thread "started" (I seemed to miss the
> start) bemoaning something about a dependency on postgres and postgres
> wasn't installed.
> The postgres dependency should only be for building our postgres wrapper,
> not for installing anything.
>
> On a private reply...apparently I left cminstall in the *.deb files, and I
> think that was an accident.
> The original poster installed the .deb and ran cminstall.
>
> As I said private and repeatedly pubically -- cminstall isn't very good at
> doing the very little it does.
> And also, I did do the per-target work of finding where packages strongly
> tend to be installed, so that
> the probing
> around by cminstall is less useful. Granted...stuff can still be in a
> variety of places.
>
> Even if, e.g. /usr/opt is "standard" in some packaging system (NetBSD?),
> user might still
> manually install to /usr/local or $HOME or $HOME/foo or whatever.
>
> Ultimately I guess I guess the config files can and should be user-edited
> upon install.
> AND to that end, there should be a better separation between
> simple-somewhat-likely-to-be-user-edited content
> and gnarlier-less-likely-to-be-edited, and the
> possibly-not-sure-it-exists-must-not-be-edited
>
>
> By which..I don't know...maybe the files should be broken up more, like:
>
> /cm3/bin/config/target/libraries (a text file, a quake snippet -- pick some
> extension)
> /cm3/bin/config/target/c_compiler (ditto)
> /cm3/bin/config/target/internal (ditto)
> /cm3/bin/config/target/main? (ditto)
>
> main would simply include(internal), c_compiler, libraries,
> in some order
>
>
>
> oops but there I went making things modular! :)
>
>
> ..and...really..I'm not going to do this, for multiple reasons.
>
> The current code is already somewhat well factored into small toplevel
> files that include
> other shared and "gnarlier" files.
>
> It takes merely like
>
> SYSTEM_LIBS = ...
>
> in the toplevel file to trump the shared gnarly stuff.
>
> We should possibly just put that in each file, commented out perhaps.
>
> But even so, I don't like putting much of anything in I386_LINUX,
> AMD64_LINUX, PPC_LINUX, etc.
> rather nicer to put stuff in Linux.common.
>
> ..Jay
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 15:43:28 +0100
> > From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es <http://mc/compose?to=dabenavidesd@yahoo.es>
> > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=m3devel@elegosoft.com>;
> wagner at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=wagner@elegosoft.com>
> > Subject: Re: [M3devel] helo everyone - videotutorials for modula3
> >
> > Hi all:
> > I think is just because of the project repository thing,a s In DEC SRC
> the vesta CM
> system, and had a cache of the copies in the laboratories and compiled for
> local machines (but they did have the AST cached, see:
> > ftp://apotheca.hpl.hp.com/pub/dec/SRC/research-reports/SRC-168.pdf
> >
> > I believe to help building large programs), I however don't know besides
> the test purposes where behind this specifically Juno-2, it seems they tests
> whether the configuration scheme was optimized to Juno ?-code programs,
> however still I don't think they necessarily did that but for another
> experiment of performance monitoring called PSpec used to monitor how was
> Juno-2 behaving in execution times mount also in Vesta in the JunoVM.
> >
> > BTW, if it doesn't matter what is the current working state of Juno-2 in
> Win32, this could be the most critical but appreciable piece between many
> others obviously more critical than it self.
> >
> > Thanks in advance
> >
> > --- El jue, 16/6/11, Olaf Wagner
> <wagner at elegosoft.com <http://mc/compose?to=wagner@elegosoft.com>>
> escribi?:
> >
> > > De: Olaf Wagner <wagner at elegosoft.com<http://mc/compose?to=wagner@elegosoft.com>
> >
> > > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] helo everyone - videotutorials for modula3
> > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com<http://mc/compose?to=m3devel@elegosoft.com>
> > > Fecha: jueves, 16 de junio, 2011 05:14
> > > Quoting Mika Nystrom <mika at async.caltech.edu<http://mc/compose?to=mika@async.caltech.edu>
> >:
> > >
> > > > Jay K writes:
> > > > ...
> > > >> Besides that=2C there's a certain dumbness.
> > > >> Compiling and dynamic linking against libfoo.so
> > > ought to require almost not=
> > > >> hing -- just the headers and
> > > >> a list of symbols in libfoo.so=2C not the actual
> > > code for libfoo.so.
> > > >> That is basically how compile/link on Windows
> > > works. But maybe not elsewher=
> > > >> e.
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > > SRC M3 used to work like
> this: m3ship would ship only
> > > the .a/.so, the .i3
> > > > files, and some sort of symbol table. PM3
> > > started shipping the sources,
> > > > not sure why.
> > >
> > > I think the only reason is to have fully indexed and
> > > referenced
> > > source documentation via Reactor/CM3-IDE/m3browser.
> > >
> > > I don't really see how that is related to linking against
> > > external
> > > libraries though.
> > >
> > > Olaf
> > > --Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH
> > >
> > > Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355
> > > Berlin, Germany
> > > phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345
> > > 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95
> > > http://www.elegosoft.com |
> > > Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin
> > > Handelregister: Amtsgericht
> Charlottenburg HRB 77719 |
> > > USt-IdNr: DE163214194
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
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