From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop Sat Oct 1 00:11:34 2011 From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:11:34 -0500 Subject: [M3devel] quiet out here, everything ok? In-Reply-To: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> Message-ID: <4E863E96.60502@lcwb.coop> It came through to me. This will also serve as a check whether my ISP is still getting blacklisted, which stops my posts from getting to elego. On 09/30/2011 03:19 PM, Michael Anderson wrote: > No posts since last server maintenance, just checking.. > > apologies for the spam. > > Michael > From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 00:18:17 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> Message-ID: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Hi guys, Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running very nicely. My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 running. Kind regards, Mark. From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 03:06:58 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:06:58 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com>, <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? Porting is much much easier these days. Really, it is not difficult. If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix compliant, there is almost nothing to do. These are both true for Linux/ia64. Can you try? See http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain or just go ahead and cd scripts/python ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX It *might* just work. It will certainly almost work. There is really very little to it. There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. That is gone now. Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. That is gone now -- even for user threads. - Jay > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Hi guys, > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running very > nicely. > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 running. > > Kind regards, Mark. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 4 05:42:40 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 04:42:40 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: you might find surprisingly more clients for the same platform: http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.vms/2004-03/0130.html In the news of Ken Olsen's obituary, they mentioned how DEC was not about micros, then it would explain some interest on the language in that, besides not too many Mainframes machine are build this days, I would certainly interested in to take a look about what it can do about in OpenVMS (a native port of threads for instance, could be interesting). I don't know any Mainframe OSes, would run this days, Linux. If OpenVMS has the sources for purchase, would they license freely to construct replicas, etc? The post sounds it may take it up to that point if people gets involved. Obviously IA64 is just another beast but who cares that matter right now. OK, maybe there is that Modula-3 has its kind of EE, would you matter to ask what is that? http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/4236.991448 It could be that of DoD Generic Trusted Intermediaries GTI, which was constructed for among others Trusted Solaris and alike is related, But,the thing is who is using it right now or used it. doi:10.1080/10658989709342533 Thanks in advance --- El lun, 3/10/11, Mark Wickens escribi?: > De: Mark Wickens > Asunto: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Fecha: lunes, 3 de octubre, 2011 17:18 > Hi guys, > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium > architecture? > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all > running very nicely. > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting > Modula-3 running. > > Kind regards, Mark. > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 07:24:17 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 05:24:17 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk>, <1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: VMS is a more difficult port..except that it is approaching Posix these days. I had it far along, for Alpha. My system wasn't up to date wrt Posix features. Linux on IA64 should be very easy. - Jay > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 04:42:40 +0100 > From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com; mark at wickensonline.co.uk > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Hi all: > you might find surprisingly more clients for the same platform: > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.vms/2004-03/0130.html > > In the news of Ken Olsen's obituary, they mentioned how DEC was not about micros, then it would explain some interest on the language in that, besides not too many Mainframes machine are build this days, I would certainly interested in to take a look about what it can do about in OpenVMS (a native port of threads for instance, could be interesting). I don't know any Mainframe OSes, would run this days, Linux. If OpenVMS has the sources for purchase, would they license freely to construct replicas, etc? The post sounds it may take it up to that point if people gets involved. Obviously IA64 is just another beast but who cares that matter right now. > OK, maybe there is that Modula-3 has its kind of EE, would you matter to ask what is that? > http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/4236.991448 > > It could be that of DoD Generic Trusted Intermediaries GTI, which was constructed for among others Trusted Solaris and alike is related, But,the thing is who is using it right now or used it. > doi:10.1080/10658989709342533 > > Thanks in advance > > --- El lun, 3/10/11, Mark Wickens escribi?: > > > De: Mark Wickens > > Asunto: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Fecha: lunes, 3 de octubre, 2011 17:18 > > Hi guys, > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium > > architecture? > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all > > running very nicely. > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting > > Modula-3 running. > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 08:02:43 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> ,<4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Hi Jay, I've downloaded and unpacked -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the script scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave the box running. Regards, Mark. On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > Really, it is not difficult. > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > Can you try? > > > See > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > or just go ahead and > > > cd scripts/python > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > It *might* just work. > It will certainly almost work. > There is really very little to it. > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > That is gone now. > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > - Jay > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > very > > nicely. > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > running. > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 08:05:54 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 07:05:54 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> ,<1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317708354.1319.2.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Jay, If you do ever feel like tackling the problem again I can give you access to Alpha and IA64 OpenVMS boxes as required. Regards, Mark. On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 05:24 +0000, Jay K wrote: > VMS is a more difficult port..except that it is approaching Posix > these days. > I had it far along, for Alpha. My system wasn't up to date wrt Posix > features. > Linux on IA64 should be very easy. > > - Jay > > > > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 04:42:40 +0100 > > From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com; mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > Hi all: > > you might find surprisingly more clients for the same platform: > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.vms/2004-03/0130.html > > > > In the news of Ken Olsen's obituary, they mentioned how DEC was not > about micros, then it would explain some interest on the language in > that, besides not too many Mainframes machine are build this days, I > would certainly interested in to take a look about what it can do > about in OpenVMS (a native port of threads for instance, could be > interesting). I don't know any Mainframe OSes, would run this days, > Linux. If OpenVMS has the sources for purchase, would they license > freely to construct replicas, etc? The post sounds it may take it up > to that point if people gets involved. Obviously IA64 is just another > beast but who cares that matter right now. > > OK, maybe there is that Modula-3 has its kind of EE, would you > matter to ask what is that? > > http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/4236.991448 > > > > It could be that of DoD Generic Trusted Intermediaries GTI, which > was constructed for among others Trusted Solaris and alike is related, > But,the thing is who is using it right now or used it. > > doi:10.1080/10658989709342533 > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > --- El lun, 3/10/11, Mark Wickens > escribi?: > > > > > De: Mark Wickens > > > Asunto: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Fecha: lunes, 3 de octubre, 2011 17:18 > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium > > > architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all > > > running very nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting > > > Modula-3 running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 08:04:54 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 06:04:54 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com>, , <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk>, , <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: Mark, don't download any .tgz.Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree.Later.. - Jay > Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 > > Hi Jay, > > I've downloaded and unpacked > > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz > > (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the script > scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. > > You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave the > box running. > > Regards, Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 08:09:36 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 07:09:36 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> ,,<4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> , ,<1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 06:04 +0000, Jay K wrote: > Mark, don't download any .tgz. > Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree. > Later.. OK, will do. However, even browsing cvs I didn't see the script you mentioned. Regards, Mark. > > - Jay > > > Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 > > > > Hi Jay, > > > > I've downloaded and unpacked > > > > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz > > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz > > > > (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the > script > > scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. > > > > You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave > the > > box running. > > > > Regards, Mark. > > > > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > > Really, it is not difficult. > > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > > > > See > > > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > > It will certainly almost work. > > > There is really very little to it. > > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which > was > > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > > That is gone now. > > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > > very > > > > nicely. > > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > > running. > > > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > > > > > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 16:16:36 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:16:36 -0700 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: <82D0F450-15C9-4D4C-AB9D-BC665BE45FC5@gmail.com> Scripts/python/boot(something).py boot1.py? - Jay (phone) On Oct 3, 2011, at 11:09 PM, Mark Wickens wrote: > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 06:04 +0000, Jay K wrote: >> Mark, don't download any .tgz. >> Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree. >> Later.. > > OK, will do. > > However, even browsing cvs I didn't see the script you mentioned. > > Regards, Mark. > > >> >> - Jay >> >>> Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu >>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 >>> >>> Hi Jay, >>> >>> I've downloaded and unpacked >>> >>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>> >>> (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the >> script >>> scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. >>> >>> You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave >> the >>> box running. >>> >>> Regards, Mark. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: >>>> Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? >>>> >>>> >>>> Porting is much much easier these days. >>>> Really, it is not difficult. >>>> If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix >>>> compliant, there is almost nothing to do. >>>> These are both true for Linux/ia64. >>>> >>>> >>>> Can you try? >>>> >>>> >>>> See >>>> >> http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain >>>> >>>> >>>> or just go ahead and >>>> >>>> >>>> cd scripts/python >>>> ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX >>>> >>>> >>>> It *might* just work. >>>> It will certainly almost work. >>>> There is really very little to it. >>>> There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. >>>> A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which >> was >>>> tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. >>>> That is gone now. >>>> Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. >>>> That is gone now -- even for user threads. >>>> >>>> >>>> - Jay >>>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 >>>>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>>>> To: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>>>> Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>>>> >>>>> Hi guys, >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? >>>>> I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running >>>> very >>>>> nicely. >>>>> My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 >>>> running. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, Mark. >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > From wagner at elegosoft.com Tue Oct 4 17:02:30 2011 From: wagner at elegosoft.com (Olaf Wagner) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 17:02:30 +0200 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <82D0F450-15C9-4D4C-AB9D-BC665BE45FC5@gmail.com> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> <82D0F450-15C9-4D4C-AB9D-BC665BE45FC5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111004170230.zm2otyxyck4ko4cc@mail.elegosoft.com> Quoting Jay : > Scripts/python/boot(something).py > boot1.py? see http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/scripts/python/ Olaf > - Jay (phone) > > On Oct 3, 2011, at 11:09 PM, Mark Wickens wrote: > >> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 06:04 +0000, Jay K wrote: >>> Mark, don't download any .tgz. >>> Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree. >>> Later.. >> >> OK, will do. >> >> However, even browsing cvs I didn't see the script you mentioned. >> >> Regards, Mark. >> >> >>> >>> - Jay >>> >>>> Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu >>>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 >>>> >>>> Hi Jay, >>>> >>>> I've downloaded and unpacked >>>> >>>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>>> >>>> (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the >>> script >>>> scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. >>>> >>>> You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave >>> the >>>> box running. >>>> >>>> Regards, Mark. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: >>>>> Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Porting is much much easier these days. >>>>> Really, it is not difficult. >>>>> If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix >>>>> compliant, there is almost nothing to do. >>>>> These are both true for Linux/ia64. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Can you try? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> See >>>>> >>> http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> or just go ahead and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> cd scripts/python >>>>> ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It *might* just work. >>>>> It will certainly almost work. >>>>> There is really very little to it. >>>>> There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. >>>>> A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which >>> was >>>>> tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. >>>>> That is gone now. >>>>> Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. >>>>> That is gone now -- even for user threads. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - Jay >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 >>>>>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>>>>> To: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>>>>> Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi guys, >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? >>>>>> I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running >>>>> very >>>>>> nicely. >>>>>> My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 >>>>> running. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards, Mark. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > -- Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 http://www.elegosoft.com | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194 From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 20:06:44 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> ,<4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <1317751604.1317.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Jay, I tried this: msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): File "./boot1.py", line 5, in import pylib File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? Mark. On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > Really, it is not difficult. > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > Can you try? > > > See > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > or just go ahead and > > > cd scripts/python > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > It *might* just work. > It will certainly almost work. > There is really very little to it. > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > That is gone now. > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > - Jay > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > very > > nicely. > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > running. > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 22:57:12 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 20:57:12 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317751604.1317.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com>, , <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk>, , <1317751604.1317.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: Sorry. More/correct instruction: Don't set any CM3 environment variables. Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. On that machine run that script. It may or may not work. If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine. (I use scp.) tar xfz it. cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp make Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? You are signed up to waste time, right? :) Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 4 23:58:32 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1317765512.35058.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.krell at cornell.edu Wed Oct 5 00:11:38 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:11:38 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317765512.35058.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: , <1317765512.35058.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. - Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 Sorry. More/correct instruction: Don't set any CM3 environment variables. Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. On that machine run that script. It may or may not work. If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine. (I use scp.) tar xfz it. cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp make Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? You are signed up to waste time, right? :) Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Wed Oct 5 00:28:00 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 23:28:00 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1317767280.50020.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv928561254 .yiv928561254ExternalClass #yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv928561254 .yiv928561254ExternalClass #yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Thu Oct 6 17:20:42 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:20:42 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317767280.50020.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317914442.45261.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv110013530 .yiv110013530ExternalClass #yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv110013530 .yiv110013530ExternalClass #yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Thu Oct 6 17:31:08 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:31:08 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317914442.45261.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317915068.89417.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: for instance: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/05/18/james_on_arm_and_windows/ Again sorry for any inconvenience I may cause by this stuff. The argument seems to be we did that already (ix86 and from AMD_64 for 8086) and don't think it's a good idea to do it again. I sort of disagree given the AMD64 support for that arguing. Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:20 Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv283771742 .yiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv283771742 .yiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.krell at cornell.edu Thu Oct 6 17:51:22 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 15:51:22 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317915068.89417.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <1317914442.45261.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>, <1317915068.89417.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Daniel I think you are maybe saying that either we need to write an NT/ARM backend like we have for NT/x86, or we need to generate C, or something else. Yes. True. I want to generate C. That should greatly reduce future porting work, might compile faster, might compile slower, will provide tremendous and portable debugability gains (and some debuggability loss on some systems). Writing other processor/OS specific backends is surely fun and interesting too, but more work, more difficult, and less value. We should also look into generating Java and/or C# and/or Microsoft .NET IL, i.e. for Windows Phone but this is an even larger tangent. C# has optional unsafety so is a somewhat different topic than generating Java. But this is still tangential to the topic at hand, and it is still very difficult to understand anything you say. Linux/ia64 can plod along just fine using the existing gcc backend. NT/ARM might be able to too eventually. NT/AMD64 certainly could. Mark, please try out what I said and ignore all the speculating. Linux/ia64 can be made to work without much change to the existing system. Daniel's tangent: VMS isn't clearly as easy, but it has definite potential. gcc does support VMS/Alpha. So does binutils. I have a working gcc cross compiler and linker to target VMS/Alpha. That is an important piece. It was enough to build a native gcc for VMS/Alpha, that didn't work, but probably only because I was missing environment variables on the target (to find headers/libraries). These are important pieces, given our current situation (ie: no C generating backend). But I have approximately zero time to devote to this stuff any longer, sorry. - Jay Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:31:08 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Hi all: for instance: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/05/18/james_on_arm_and_windows/ Again sorry for any inconvenience I may cause by this stuff. The argument seems to be we did that already (ix86 and from AMD_64 for 8086) and don't think it's a good idea to do it again. I sort of disagree given the AMD64 support for that arguing. Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:20 Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. - Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 Sorry. More/correct instruction: Don't set any CM3 environment variables. Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. On that machine run that script. It may or may not work. If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine. (I use scp.) tar xfz it. cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp make Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? You are signed up to waste time, right? :) Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Sun Oct 9 18:37:21 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:37:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1318178241.96053.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: that's a wonderful idea, still, this virtual machinery lacks module management (you have sort this out with Segmentation in HW and so). The main con against this is due the subtleties of being Safe code the one responsible for getting CPU traps as? RT exceptions, I only known of certain hardware drivers written in Modula-3 for controlling MMU, there we would have a point to ask a complete software environment and machine system in a type safe language (memory and instruction errors, etc). I knew of somebody working in this arena sort of looking behind the Module hardware idea but he moved up to Python, then it follows it must be UNSAFE code is the one responsible of this kind of machine support, or one if type safe VIEW operator type system coercion support, but controlled by the RT, which is something we could ask for ESC for interpreting in a logic manner if so. Instead if the case is important we could manage to support JVM and .Net bytecodes safely if that's the way of them to support their platforms. I guess Java explored this approach in the Java Guest VM approach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHIaH12f2Ek This is more or less the same idea, but instead of supporting Xen, we would rather run unmodified M3 (done) and export interfaces for JVM and .NET, etc and facilitate the hypervisor support Win is trying to verify (100k LoC C code verification estimated effort of 60 years of man work), with its new systems I think the man behind this ported a product to Modula-3 of this class (MIPS isa PPSIM, which I have no much support information, about bogomips, but that's why ask the support of ESC to be able to optimize this further than UNSAFE code efficiency that's part of a not true statement or misconception if I may say so). Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:51 Daniel I think you are maybe saying that either we need to write an NT/ARM backend like we have for NT/x86, or we need to generate C, or something else. Yes. True. I want to generate C. That should greatly reduce future porting work, might compile faster, might compile slower, will provide tremendous and portable debugability gains (and some debuggability loss on some systems). Writing other processor/OS specific backends is surely fun and interesting too, but more work, more difficult, and less value. We should also look into generating Java and/or C# and/or Microsoft .NET IL, i.e. for Windows Phone but this is an even larger tangent. C# has optional unsafety so is a somewhat different topic than generating Java. But this is still tangential to the topic at hand, and it is still very difficult to understand anything you say. Linux/ia64 can plod along just fine using the existing gcc backend. NT/ARM might be able to too eventually. NT/AMD64 certainly could. Mark, please try out what I said and ignore all the speculating. Linux/ia64 can be made to work without much change to the existing system. Daniel's tangent: VMS isn't clearly as easy, but it has definite potential. gcc does support VMS/Alpha. So does binutils. I have a working gcc cross compiler and linker to target VMS/Alpha. That is an important piece. It was enough to build a native gcc for VMS/Alpha, that didn't work, but probably only because I was missing environment variables on the target (to find headers/libraries). These are important pieces, given our current situation (ie: no C generating backend). But I have approximately zero time to devote to this stuff any longer, sorry. ?- Jay Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:31:08 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Hi all: for instance: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/05/18/james_on_arm_and_windows/ Again sorry for any inconvenience I may cause by this stuff. The argument seems to be we did that already (ix86 and from AMD_64 for 8086) and don't think it's a good idea to do it again. I sort of disagree given the AMD64 support for that arguing. Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:20 Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 body.yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 18 04:51:35 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:51:35 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] About this issue when compiling small machines and bigger machines with Gcc Message-ID: <1318906295.9231.YahooMailClassic@web29710.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: I was retrieving bits and I saw the history of C programming language, and stop and read it because of late Dennis Ritchie and its legacy, and thought OK, it's good to seek what's the history of C in regards of the born of itself and of Unix tech-bed. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html It turned an interesting quick read until when I found the machine of their implementation and later to discover how the technical fact that generating assembly for it was a better idea to do it with some sort of macro-precessor (OK, not exactly C preprocessor, but sort of) out of that it then chunk chunk why it's that such would apply now, then I came back to look for the qeustion of C-- implementation: http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~dias/dissertation/dissertation.pdf So where is the trick here if we want to introduce Modula-3, the question was raised by the tool the NJ machine-code toolkit: http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/pubs/tk-usenix.html But then the problem for them was that this thesis above has dependence on that the NJ mc tk generates C and Modula-3, what amazing! I mean their problem is not ours, is our solution! Also the mld idea I have been thinking about, maybe it's time for us to try this in the cm3 too, to see whether we can avoid gcc like targets and dependencies. Thanks in advance From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 18 05:47:55 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 04:47:55 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] About this issue when compiling small machines and bigger machines with Gcc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1318909675.90775.YahooMailClassic@web29718.mail.ird.yahoo.com> HI: I think is the same question I was thinking if I may quit gcc, this practically means this C dependence is not that good anyway, but putting in perspective gcc is late to be rewritten as planned in C++ (not a good task or that easy, but that's someone else flaw, not gcc, since C++ is just C ++, isn't C++ ) But companies are getting close to this in open64.org for instance they are pushing hard, and they had this CG very special for MIPS and that's nice work,? but us is to run above everything on the market or even backwards? compatibilities too, so, this isn't that hard why it would be needed gcc, you are kind of supporting people projects, but let's move on, for instance today I read about the acceptance of samba team project to allow other's machine code to run over samba net, you know like that printer is still in your office but need to print from a legacy system and or an old driver that needs to communicate with samba,etc, by accepting others licenses and copyright holders linked in their code (I mean for instance nice if you could get OS/2 support, then you have a point to support later this platform with samba, you know, legacy apps work better with a real than a virtual machine, don't you think, and there very good systems, for instance, the KLR machine I think had an OS/2 kernel based for SMP, and Modula-3* target it, why we would want to omit such target). http://compilers.iecc.com/comparch/article/94-09-013 I even think today this kind of machines are in architecturally S-g-i NUMAs of today, like e.g open64.org So this is the question who cares that anyway. Thanks in advance --- El lun, 17/10/11, felipe valdez escribi?: De: felipe valdez Asunto: Re: [M3devel] About this issue when compiling small machines and bigger machines with Gcc Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." Fecha: lunes, 17 de octubre, 2011 22:09 why would one to avoid gcc, cine it is industry-supported, and ported to many plattforms exactly? just to re-do their work? if you worry about dependencies, what about getting rid of "text" as a dependency? On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote: Hi all: I was retrieving bits and I saw the history of C programming language, and stop and read it because of late Dennis Ritchie and its legacy, and thought OK, it's good to seek what's the history of C in regards of the born of itself and of Unix tech-bed. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html It turned an interesting quick read until when I found the machine of their implementation and later to discover how the technical fact that generating assembly for it was a better idea to do it with some sort of macro-precessor (OK, not exactly C preprocessor, but sort of) out of that it then chunk chunk why it's that such would apply now, then I came back to look for the qeustion of C-- implementation: http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~dias/dissertation/dissertation.pdf So where is the trick here if we want to introduce Modula-3, the question was raised by the tool the NJ machine-code toolkit: http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/pubs/tk-usenix.html But then the problem for them was that this thesis above has dependence on that the NJ mc tk generates C and Modula-3, what amazing! I mean their problem is not ours, is our solution! Also the mld idea I have been thinking about, maybe it's time for us to try this in the cm3 too, to see whether we can avoid gcc like targets and dependencies. Thanks in advance -- 312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kcdurocher at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 02:16:08 2011 From: kcdurocher at gmail.com (Ken Durocher) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:16:08 -0500 Subject: [M3devel] Mersenne Twister in Modula-3, Error? Message-ID: I implemented the Mersenne Twister in Modula-3 some time ago, however when I test it out (the same test data that the authors of the Mersenne Twister used), the output is different. I tested this code on both 32 and 64 bit machines, and they both give me the same results, but the results are different from that of the original Mersenne Twister code. Here's the code: INTERFACE MT19937ar; IMPORT Word; PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T); PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER); PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T; PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER; PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL; PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL; PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL; END MT19937ar. (*********) MODULE MT19937ar; IMPORT Word; FROM Word IMPORT And, Xor, Or, RightShift, LeftShift; CONST n = 624; m = 397; matrix_a = 16_9908b0df; upper_mask = 16_80000000; lower_mask = 16_7fffffff; VAR mt: ARRAY [0..n] OF Word.T; mti := n + 1; PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T) = BEGIN mt[0] := And(s, 16_ffffffff); FOR mti := 1 TO n - 1 DO mt[mti] := 1812433253 * (Xor(mt[mti-1], RightShift(mt[mti-1], 30))) + mti; mt[mti] := And(mt[mti], 16_ffffffff); END; END initGenrand; PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER) = VAR i, j, k: INTEGER; BEGIN i := 1; j := 0; initGenrand(19650218); IF n > length THEN k := n ELSE k := length; END; WHILE k # 0 DO mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1664525) + key[j] + j; mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); INC(i); INC(j); IF i >= n THEN mt[0] := mt[n-1]; i := 1; END; IF j >= length THEN j := 0; END; DEC(k); END; k := n - 1; WHILE k # 0 DO mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1566083941) - i; mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); INC(i); IF i >= n THEN mt[0] := mt[n-1]; i := 1; END; DEC(k); END; mt[0] := 16_80000000; END initByArray; PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T = VAR y: Word.T; k: INTEGER := 0; mag01 := ARRAY [0..1] OF Word.T {0, matrix_a}; BEGIN IF mti >= n THEN IF mti = (n + 1) THEN initGenrand(5489); END; WHILE k < (n - m) DO y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+m], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); INC(k); END; WHILE k < (n - 1) DO y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+(m-n)], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); INC(k); END; y := Or(And(mt[n-1], upper_mask), And(mt[0], lower_mask)); mt[n-1] := Xor(Xor(mt[m-1], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); mti := 0; END; y := mt[mti]; INC(mti); y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 11)); y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 7), 16_9d2c5680)); y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 15), 16_efc60000)); y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 18)); RETURN y; END genrandInt32; PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER = BEGIN RETURN RightShift(genrandInt32(), 1); END genrandInt31; PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL = BEGIN RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967295.0); END genrandReal1; PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL = BEGIN RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); END genrandReal2; PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL = BEGIN RETURN (FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) + 0.5) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); END genrandReal3; BEGIN END MT19937ar. (********) MODULE Main; IMPORT IO, Fmt, MT19937ar; VAR init := ARRAY [0..3] OF INTEGER {16_123, 16_234, 16_345, 16_456}; len := 4; BEGIN MT19937ar.initByArray(init, len); IO.Put("Random integers: "); FOR i := 1 TO 999 DO IO.Put(Fmt.Unsigned(MT19937ar.genrandInt32(), base := 10)); IO.Put(" "); IF (i MOD 5) = 4 THEN IO.Put("\n"); END; END; IO.Put("\n"); END Main. And here is the first few numbers it outputs: 3499211612 581869302 3890346734 3586334585 ... Compare that to the first few numbers of output from the original Mersenne Twister code, in C: 1067595299 955945823 477289528 4107218783 ... Anyone know why they are different? Is the code wrong, or is it an implementation difference, or what? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop Wed Oct 19 18:20:17 2011 From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 11:20:17 -0500 Subject: [M3devel] Mersenne Twister in Modula-3, Error? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E9EF8C1.6030607@lcwb.coop> Can you post the C code you are comparing against? On 10/18/2011 07:16 PM, Ken Durocher wrote: > I implemented the Mersenne Twister in Modula-3 some time ago, however when I test it out (the same test data that the authors of the Mersenne Twister used), the output is different. I tested this code on both 32 and 64 bit machines, and they both give me the same results, but the results are different from that of the original Mersenne Twister code. > > Here's the code: > > INTERFACE MT19937ar; > > IMPORT Word; > > PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T); > PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER); > > PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T; > PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER; > PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL; > PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL; > PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL; > > END MT19937ar. > > (*********) > > MODULE MT19937ar; > > IMPORT Word; > FROM Word IMPORT And, Xor, Or, RightShift, LeftShift; > > CONST > n = 624; > m = 397; > matrix_a = 16_9908b0df; > upper_mask = 16_80000000; > lower_mask = 16_7fffffff; > > VAR > mt: ARRAY [0..n] OF Word.T; > mti := n + 1; > > PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T) = > BEGIN > mt[0] := And(s, 16_ffffffff); > FOR mti := 1 TO n - 1 DO > mt[mti] := 1812433253 * (Xor(mt[mti-1], RightShift(mt[mti-1], 30))) + mti; > mt[mti] := And(mt[mti], 16_ffffffff); > END; > END initGenrand; > > PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER) = > VAR i, j, k: INTEGER; > BEGIN > i := 1; j := 0; > initGenrand(19650218); > IF n > length THEN k := n ELSE k := length; END; > WHILE k # 0 DO > mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1664525) + > key[j] + j; > mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); > INC(i); INC(j); > IF i >= n THEN > mt[0] := mt[n-1]; > i := 1; > END; > > IF j >= length THEN > j := 0; > END; > DEC(k); > END; > > k := n - 1; > WHILE k # 0 DO > mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1566083941) - i; > mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); > INC(i); > IF i >= n THEN > mt[0] := mt[n-1]; > i := 1; > END; > DEC(k); > END; > > mt[0] := 16_80000000; > END initByArray; > > PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T = > VAR y: Word.T; > k: INTEGER := 0; > mag01 := ARRAY [0..1] OF Word.T {0, matrix_a}; > BEGIN > IF mti >= n THEN > IF mti = (n + 1) THEN > initGenrand(5489); > END; > > WHILE k < (n - m) DO > y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); > mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+m], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); > INC(k); > END; > WHILE k < (n - 1) DO > y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); > mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+(m-n)], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); > INC(k); > END; > > y := Or(And(mt[n-1], upper_mask), And(mt[0], lower_mask)); > mt[n-1] := Xor(Xor(mt[m-1], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); > mti := 0; > END; > > y := mt[mti]; > INC(mti); > > y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 11)); > y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 7), 16_9d2c5680)); > y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 15), 16_efc60000)); > y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 18)); > > RETURN y; > END genrandInt32; > > PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER = > BEGIN > RETURN RightShift(genrandInt32(), 1); > END genrandInt31; > > PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL = > BEGIN > RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967295.0); > END genrandReal1; > > PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL = > BEGIN > RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); > END genrandReal2; > > PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL = > BEGIN > RETURN (FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) + 0.5) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); > END genrandReal3; > > BEGIN > END MT19937ar. > > (********) > > MODULE Main; > > IMPORT IO, Fmt, MT19937ar; > > VAR init := ARRAY [0..3] OF INTEGER {16_123, 16_234, 16_345, 16_456}; > len := 4; > > BEGIN > MT19937ar.initByArray(init, len); > IO.Put("Random integers: "); > FOR i := 1 TO 999 DO > IO.Put(Fmt.Unsigned(MT19937ar.genrandInt32(), base := 10)); > IO.Put(" "); > IF (i MOD 5) = 4 THEN IO.Put("\n"); END; > END; > IO.Put("\n"); > END Main. > > And here is the first few numbers it outputs: > > 3499211612 581869302 3890346734 3586334585 ... > > Compare that to the first few numbers of output from the original Mersenne Twister code, in C: > > 1067595299 955945823 477289528 4107218783 ... > > Anyone know why they are different? Is the code wrong, or is it an implementation difference, or what? From wagner at elegosoft.com Tue Oct 25 15:25:20 2011 From: wagner at elegosoft.com (Olaf Wagner) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:25:20 +0200 Subject: [M3devel] [m3] some help with the libs needed. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111025152520.kjktc834ys4gs4gk@mail.elegosoft.com> Quoting Nils Reimelt : > Dear m3 Team, > > I'm needing the modula-3 libs TCP and Table but I get an > unable-to-find-message: > > > ..., line 4: unable to find interface (Table) > ..., line 4: unable to find interface (TCP) This is during compilation, correct? Have you imported the packages in your m3makefile: import("libm3") import("tcp") ? Olaf > On my Mac I see the lib directory /usr/local/cm3/lib and the libs seem > to be there: > ls | grep -i tcp > libm3tcp.5.2.dylib > libm3tcp.5.dylib > libm3tcp.a > libm3tcp.dylib > > But perhaps I have a path-problem? > I've set the two Lib-Paths, but nothing happens. > export DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=$DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/local/cm3/lib > ... > DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=:/usr/local/cm3/lib > LD_LIBRARY_PATH=:/usr/local/cm3/lib > > Critical Mass Modula-3 version d5.9.0 > last updated: 2010-07-21 > compiled: 2011-03-23 02:11:26 > > config file looks like this: > /usr/local/cm3/bin/cm3.cfg > > INSTALL_ROOT = (path() & SL & "..") > > include(path() & "/config/I386_DARWIN") > > Perhaps it has something to do that I installed only the core? > cm3-bin-core-I386_DARWIN-d5.9.0-i386-apple-darwin9.8.0-2011-03-23-02-05-49 > > > Thank you and best > Nils > -- Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 http://www.elegosoft.com | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194 From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop Sat Oct 1 00:11:34 2011 From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:11:34 -0500 Subject: [M3devel] quiet out here, everything ok? In-Reply-To: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> Message-ID: <4E863E96.60502@lcwb.coop> It came through to me. This will also serve as a check whether my ISP is still getting blacklisted, which stops my posts from getting to elego. On 09/30/2011 03:19 PM, Michael Anderson wrote: > No posts since last server maintenance, just checking.. > > apologies for the spam. > > Michael > From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 00:18:17 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> Message-ID: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Hi guys, Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running very nicely. My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 running. Kind regards, Mark. From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 03:06:58 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:06:58 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com>, <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? Porting is much much easier these days. Really, it is not difficult. If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix compliant, there is almost nothing to do. These are both true for Linux/ia64. Can you try? See http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain or just go ahead and cd scripts/python ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX It *might* just work. It will certainly almost work. There is really very little to it. There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. That is gone now. Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. That is gone now -- even for user threads. - Jay > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Hi guys, > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running very > nicely. > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 running. > > Kind regards, Mark. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 4 05:42:40 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 04:42:40 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: you might find surprisingly more clients for the same platform: http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.vms/2004-03/0130.html In the news of Ken Olsen's obituary, they mentioned how DEC was not about micros, then it would explain some interest on the language in that, besides not too many Mainframes machine are build this days, I would certainly interested in to take a look about what it can do about in OpenVMS (a native port of threads for instance, could be interesting). I don't know any Mainframe OSes, would run this days, Linux. If OpenVMS has the sources for purchase, would they license freely to construct replicas, etc? The post sounds it may take it up to that point if people gets involved. Obviously IA64 is just another beast but who cares that matter right now. OK, maybe there is that Modula-3 has its kind of EE, would you matter to ask what is that? http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/4236.991448 It could be that of DoD Generic Trusted Intermediaries GTI, which was constructed for among others Trusted Solaris and alike is related, But,the thing is who is using it right now or used it. doi:10.1080/10658989709342533 Thanks in advance --- El lun, 3/10/11, Mark Wickens escribi?: > De: Mark Wickens > Asunto: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Fecha: lunes, 3 de octubre, 2011 17:18 > Hi guys, > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium > architecture? > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all > running very nicely. > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting > Modula-3 running. > > Kind regards, Mark. > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 07:24:17 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 05:24:17 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk>, <1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: VMS is a more difficult port..except that it is approaching Posix these days. I had it far along, for Alpha. My system wasn't up to date wrt Posix features. Linux on IA64 should be very easy. - Jay > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 04:42:40 +0100 > From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com; mark at wickensonline.co.uk > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Hi all: > you might find surprisingly more clients for the same platform: > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.vms/2004-03/0130.html > > In the news of Ken Olsen's obituary, they mentioned how DEC was not about micros, then it would explain some interest on the language in that, besides not too many Mainframes machine are build this days, I would certainly interested in to take a look about what it can do about in OpenVMS (a native port of threads for instance, could be interesting). I don't know any Mainframe OSes, would run this days, Linux. If OpenVMS has the sources for purchase, would they license freely to construct replicas, etc? The post sounds it may take it up to that point if people gets involved. Obviously IA64 is just another beast but who cares that matter right now. > OK, maybe there is that Modula-3 has its kind of EE, would you matter to ask what is that? > http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/4236.991448 > > It could be that of DoD Generic Trusted Intermediaries GTI, which was constructed for among others Trusted Solaris and alike is related, But,the thing is who is using it right now or used it. > doi:10.1080/10658989709342533 > > Thanks in advance > > --- El lun, 3/10/11, Mark Wickens escribi?: > > > De: Mark Wickens > > Asunto: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Fecha: lunes, 3 de octubre, 2011 17:18 > > Hi guys, > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium > > architecture? > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all > > running very nicely. > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting > > Modula-3 running. > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 08:02:43 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> ,<4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Hi Jay, I've downloaded and unpacked -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the script scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave the box running. Regards, Mark. On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > Really, it is not difficult. > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > Can you try? > > > See > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > or just go ahead and > > > cd scripts/python > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > It *might* just work. > It will certainly almost work. > There is really very little to it. > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > That is gone now. > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > - Jay > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > very > > nicely. > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > running. > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 08:05:54 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 07:05:54 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> ,<1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317708354.1319.2.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Jay, If you do ever feel like tackling the problem again I can give you access to Alpha and IA64 OpenVMS boxes as required. Regards, Mark. On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 05:24 +0000, Jay K wrote: > VMS is a more difficult port..except that it is approaching Posix > these days. > I had it far along, for Alpha. My system wasn't up to date wrt Posix > features. > Linux on IA64 should be very easy. > > - Jay > > > > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 04:42:40 +0100 > > From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com; mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > Hi all: > > you might find surprisingly more clients for the same platform: > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.vms/2004-03/0130.html > > > > In the news of Ken Olsen's obituary, they mentioned how DEC was not > about micros, then it would explain some interest on the language in > that, besides not too many Mainframes machine are build this days, I > would certainly interested in to take a look about what it can do > about in OpenVMS (a native port of threads for instance, could be > interesting). I don't know any Mainframe OSes, would run this days, > Linux. If OpenVMS has the sources for purchase, would they license > freely to construct replicas, etc? The post sounds it may take it up > to that point if people gets involved. Obviously IA64 is just another > beast but who cares that matter right now. > > OK, maybe there is that Modula-3 has its kind of EE, would you > matter to ask what is that? > > http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/4236.991448 > > > > It could be that of DoD Generic Trusted Intermediaries GTI, which > was constructed for among others Trusted Solaris and alike is related, > But,the thing is who is using it right now or used it. > > doi:10.1080/10658989709342533 > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > --- El lun, 3/10/11, Mark Wickens > escribi?: > > > > > De: Mark Wickens > > > Asunto: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Fecha: lunes, 3 de octubre, 2011 17:18 > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium > > > architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all > > > running very nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting > > > Modula-3 running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 08:04:54 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 06:04:54 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com>, , <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk>, , <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: Mark, don't download any .tgz.Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree.Later.. - Jay > Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 > > Hi Jay, > > I've downloaded and unpacked > > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz > > (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the script > scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. > > You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave the > box running. > > Regards, Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 08:09:36 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 07:09:36 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> ,,<4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> , ,<1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 06:04 +0000, Jay K wrote: > Mark, don't download any .tgz. > Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree. > Later.. OK, will do. However, even browsing cvs I didn't see the script you mentioned. Regards, Mark. > > - Jay > > > Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 > > > > Hi Jay, > > > > I've downloaded and unpacked > > > > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz > > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz > > > > (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the > script > > scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. > > > > You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave > the > > box running. > > > > Regards, Mark. > > > > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > > Really, it is not difficult. > > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > > > > See > > > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > > It will certainly almost work. > > > There is really very little to it. > > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which > was > > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > > That is gone now. > > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > > very > > > > nicely. > > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > > running. > > > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > > > > > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 16:16:36 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:16:36 -0700 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: <82D0F450-15C9-4D4C-AB9D-BC665BE45FC5@gmail.com> Scripts/python/boot(something).py boot1.py? - Jay (phone) On Oct 3, 2011, at 11:09 PM, Mark Wickens wrote: > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 06:04 +0000, Jay K wrote: >> Mark, don't download any .tgz. >> Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree. >> Later.. > > OK, will do. > > However, even browsing cvs I didn't see the script you mentioned. > > Regards, Mark. > > >> >> - Jay >> >>> Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu >>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 >>> >>> Hi Jay, >>> >>> I've downloaded and unpacked >>> >>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>> >>> (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the >> script >>> scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. >>> >>> You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave >> the >>> box running. >>> >>> Regards, Mark. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: >>>> Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? >>>> >>>> >>>> Porting is much much easier these days. >>>> Really, it is not difficult. >>>> If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix >>>> compliant, there is almost nothing to do. >>>> These are both true for Linux/ia64. >>>> >>>> >>>> Can you try? >>>> >>>> >>>> See >>>> >> http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain >>>> >>>> >>>> or just go ahead and >>>> >>>> >>>> cd scripts/python >>>> ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX >>>> >>>> >>>> It *might* just work. >>>> It will certainly almost work. >>>> There is really very little to it. >>>> There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. >>>> A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which >> was >>>> tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. >>>> That is gone now. >>>> Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. >>>> That is gone now -- even for user threads. >>>> >>>> >>>> - Jay >>>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 >>>>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>>>> To: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>>>> Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>>>> >>>>> Hi guys, >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? >>>>> I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running >>>> very >>>>> nicely. >>>>> My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 >>>> running. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, Mark. >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > From wagner at elegosoft.com Tue Oct 4 17:02:30 2011 From: wagner at elegosoft.com (Olaf Wagner) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 17:02:30 +0200 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <82D0F450-15C9-4D4C-AB9D-BC665BE45FC5@gmail.com> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> <82D0F450-15C9-4D4C-AB9D-BC665BE45FC5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111004170230.zm2otyxyck4ko4cc@mail.elegosoft.com> Quoting Jay : > Scripts/python/boot(something).py > boot1.py? see http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/scripts/python/ Olaf > - Jay (phone) > > On Oct 3, 2011, at 11:09 PM, Mark Wickens wrote: > >> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 06:04 +0000, Jay K wrote: >>> Mark, don't download any .tgz. >>> Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree. >>> Later.. >> >> OK, will do. >> >> However, even browsing cvs I didn't see the script you mentioned. >> >> Regards, Mark. >> >> >>> >>> - Jay >>> >>>> Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu >>>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 >>>> >>>> Hi Jay, >>>> >>>> I've downloaded and unpacked >>>> >>>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>>> >>>> (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the >>> script >>>> scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. >>>> >>>> You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave >>> the >>>> box running. >>>> >>>> Regards, Mark. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: >>>>> Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Porting is much much easier these days. >>>>> Really, it is not difficult. >>>>> If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix >>>>> compliant, there is almost nothing to do. >>>>> These are both true for Linux/ia64. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Can you try? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> See >>>>> >>> http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> or just go ahead and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> cd scripts/python >>>>> ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It *might* just work. >>>>> It will certainly almost work. >>>>> There is really very little to it. >>>>> There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. >>>>> A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which >>> was >>>>> tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. >>>>> That is gone now. >>>>> Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. >>>>> That is gone now -- even for user threads. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - Jay >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 >>>>>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>>>>> To: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>>>>> Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi guys, >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? >>>>>> I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running >>>>> very >>>>>> nicely. >>>>>> My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 >>>>> running. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards, Mark. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > -- Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 http://www.elegosoft.com | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194 From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 20:06:44 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> ,<4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <1317751604.1317.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Jay, I tried this: msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): File "./boot1.py", line 5, in import pylib File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? Mark. On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > Really, it is not difficult. > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > Can you try? > > > See > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > or just go ahead and > > > cd scripts/python > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > It *might* just work. > It will certainly almost work. > There is really very little to it. > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > That is gone now. > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > - Jay > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > very > > nicely. > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > running. > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 22:57:12 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 20:57:12 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317751604.1317.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com>, , <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk>, , <1317751604.1317.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: Sorry. More/correct instruction: Don't set any CM3 environment variables. Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. On that machine run that script. It may or may not work. If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine. (I use scp.) tar xfz it. cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp make Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? You are signed up to waste time, right? :) Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 4 23:58:32 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1317765512.35058.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.krell at cornell.edu Wed Oct 5 00:11:38 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:11:38 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317765512.35058.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: , <1317765512.35058.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. - Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 Sorry. More/correct instruction: Don't set any CM3 environment variables. Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. On that machine run that script. It may or may not work. If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine. (I use scp.) tar xfz it. cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp make Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? You are signed up to waste time, right? :) Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Wed Oct 5 00:28:00 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 23:28:00 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1317767280.50020.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv928561254 .yiv928561254ExternalClass #yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv928561254 .yiv928561254ExternalClass #yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Thu Oct 6 17:20:42 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:20:42 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317767280.50020.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317914442.45261.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv110013530 .yiv110013530ExternalClass #yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv110013530 .yiv110013530ExternalClass #yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Thu Oct 6 17:31:08 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:31:08 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317914442.45261.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317915068.89417.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: for instance: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/05/18/james_on_arm_and_windows/ Again sorry for any inconvenience I may cause by this stuff. The argument seems to be we did that already (ix86 and from AMD_64 for 8086) and don't think it's a good idea to do it again. I sort of disagree given the AMD64 support for that arguing. Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:20 Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv283771742 .yiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv283771742 .yiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.krell at cornell.edu Thu Oct 6 17:51:22 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 15:51:22 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317915068.89417.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <1317914442.45261.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>, <1317915068.89417.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Daniel I think you are maybe saying that either we need to write an NT/ARM backend like we have for NT/x86, or we need to generate C, or something else. Yes. True. I want to generate C. That should greatly reduce future porting work, might compile faster, might compile slower, will provide tremendous and portable debugability gains (and some debuggability loss on some systems). Writing other processor/OS specific backends is surely fun and interesting too, but more work, more difficult, and less value. We should also look into generating Java and/or C# and/or Microsoft .NET IL, i.e. for Windows Phone but this is an even larger tangent. C# has optional unsafety so is a somewhat different topic than generating Java. But this is still tangential to the topic at hand, and it is still very difficult to understand anything you say. Linux/ia64 can plod along just fine using the existing gcc backend. NT/ARM might be able to too eventually. NT/AMD64 certainly could. Mark, please try out what I said and ignore all the speculating. Linux/ia64 can be made to work without much change to the existing system. Daniel's tangent: VMS isn't clearly as easy, but it has definite potential. gcc does support VMS/Alpha. So does binutils. I have a working gcc cross compiler and linker to target VMS/Alpha. That is an important piece. It was enough to build a native gcc for VMS/Alpha, that didn't work, but probably only because I was missing environment variables on the target (to find headers/libraries). These are important pieces, given our current situation (ie: no C generating backend). But I have approximately zero time to devote to this stuff any longer, sorry. - Jay Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:31:08 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Hi all: for instance: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/05/18/james_on_arm_and_windows/ Again sorry for any inconvenience I may cause by this stuff. The argument seems to be we did that already (ix86 and from AMD_64 for 8086) and don't think it's a good idea to do it again. I sort of disagree given the AMD64 support for that arguing. Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:20 Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. - Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 Sorry. More/correct instruction: Don't set any CM3 environment variables. Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. On that machine run that script. It may or may not work. If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine. (I use scp.) tar xfz it. cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp make Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? You are signed up to waste time, right? :) Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Sun Oct 9 18:37:21 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:37:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1318178241.96053.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: that's a wonderful idea, still, this virtual machinery lacks module management (you have sort this out with Segmentation in HW and so). The main con against this is due the subtleties of being Safe code the one responsible for getting CPU traps as? RT exceptions, I only known of certain hardware drivers written in Modula-3 for controlling MMU, there we would have a point to ask a complete software environment and machine system in a type safe language (memory and instruction errors, etc). I knew of somebody working in this arena sort of looking behind the Module hardware idea but he moved up to Python, then it follows it must be UNSAFE code is the one responsible of this kind of machine support, or one if type safe VIEW operator type system coercion support, but controlled by the RT, which is something we could ask for ESC for interpreting in a logic manner if so. Instead if the case is important we could manage to support JVM and .Net bytecodes safely if that's the way of them to support their platforms. I guess Java explored this approach in the Java Guest VM approach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHIaH12f2Ek This is more or less the same idea, but instead of supporting Xen, we would rather run unmodified M3 (done) and export interfaces for JVM and .NET, etc and facilitate the hypervisor support Win is trying to verify (100k LoC C code verification estimated effort of 60 years of man work), with its new systems I think the man behind this ported a product to Modula-3 of this class (MIPS isa PPSIM, which I have no much support information, about bogomips, but that's why ask the support of ESC to be able to optimize this further than UNSAFE code efficiency that's part of a not true statement or misconception if I may say so). Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:51 Daniel I think you are maybe saying that either we need to write an NT/ARM backend like we have for NT/x86, or we need to generate C, or something else. Yes. True. I want to generate C. That should greatly reduce future porting work, might compile faster, might compile slower, will provide tremendous and portable debugability gains (and some debuggability loss on some systems). Writing other processor/OS specific backends is surely fun and interesting too, but more work, more difficult, and less value. We should also look into generating Java and/or C# and/or Microsoft .NET IL, i.e. for Windows Phone but this is an even larger tangent. C# has optional unsafety so is a somewhat different topic than generating Java. But this is still tangential to the topic at hand, and it is still very difficult to understand anything you say. Linux/ia64 can plod along just fine using the existing gcc backend. NT/ARM might be able to too eventually. NT/AMD64 certainly could. Mark, please try out what I said and ignore all the speculating. Linux/ia64 can be made to work without much change to the existing system. Daniel's tangent: VMS isn't clearly as easy, but it has definite potential. gcc does support VMS/Alpha. So does binutils. I have a working gcc cross compiler and linker to target VMS/Alpha. That is an important piece. It was enough to build a native gcc for VMS/Alpha, that didn't work, but probably only because I was missing environment variables on the target (to find headers/libraries). These are important pieces, given our current situation (ie: no C generating backend). But I have approximately zero time to devote to this stuff any longer, sorry. ?- Jay Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:31:08 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Hi all: for instance: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/05/18/james_on_arm_and_windows/ Again sorry for any inconvenience I may cause by this stuff. The argument seems to be we did that already (ix86 and from AMD_64 for 8086) and don't think it's a good idea to do it again. I sort of disagree given the AMD64 support for that arguing. Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:20 Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 body.yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 18 04:51:35 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:51:35 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] About this issue when compiling small machines and bigger machines with Gcc Message-ID: <1318906295.9231.YahooMailClassic@web29710.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: I was retrieving bits and I saw the history of C programming language, and stop and read it because of late Dennis Ritchie and its legacy, and thought OK, it's good to seek what's the history of C in regards of the born of itself and of Unix tech-bed. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html It turned an interesting quick read until when I found the machine of their implementation and later to discover how the technical fact that generating assembly for it was a better idea to do it with some sort of macro-precessor (OK, not exactly C preprocessor, but sort of) out of that it then chunk chunk why it's that such would apply now, then I came back to look for the qeustion of C-- implementation: http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~dias/dissertation/dissertation.pdf So where is the trick here if we want to introduce Modula-3, the question was raised by the tool the NJ machine-code toolkit: http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/pubs/tk-usenix.html But then the problem for them was that this thesis above has dependence on that the NJ mc tk generates C and Modula-3, what amazing! I mean their problem is not ours, is our solution! Also the mld idea I have been thinking about, maybe it's time for us to try this in the cm3 too, to see whether we can avoid gcc like targets and dependencies. Thanks in advance From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 18 05:47:55 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 04:47:55 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] About this issue when compiling small machines and bigger machines with Gcc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1318909675.90775.YahooMailClassic@web29718.mail.ird.yahoo.com> HI: I think is the same question I was thinking if I may quit gcc, this practically means this C dependence is not that good anyway, but putting in perspective gcc is late to be rewritten as planned in C++ (not a good task or that easy, but that's someone else flaw, not gcc, since C++ is just C ++, isn't C++ ) But companies are getting close to this in open64.org for instance they are pushing hard, and they had this CG very special for MIPS and that's nice work,? but us is to run above everything on the market or even backwards? compatibilities too, so, this isn't that hard why it would be needed gcc, you are kind of supporting people projects, but let's move on, for instance today I read about the acceptance of samba team project to allow other's machine code to run over samba net, you know like that printer is still in your office but need to print from a legacy system and or an old driver that needs to communicate with samba,etc, by accepting others licenses and copyright holders linked in their code (I mean for instance nice if you could get OS/2 support, then you have a point to support later this platform with samba, you know, legacy apps work better with a real than a virtual machine, don't you think, and there very good systems, for instance, the KLR machine I think had an OS/2 kernel based for SMP, and Modula-3* target it, why we would want to omit such target). http://compilers.iecc.com/comparch/article/94-09-013 I even think today this kind of machines are in architecturally S-g-i NUMAs of today, like e.g open64.org So this is the question who cares that anyway. Thanks in advance --- El lun, 17/10/11, felipe valdez escribi?: De: felipe valdez Asunto: Re: [M3devel] About this issue when compiling small machines and bigger machines with Gcc Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." Fecha: lunes, 17 de octubre, 2011 22:09 why would one to avoid gcc, cine it is industry-supported, and ported to many plattforms exactly? just to re-do their work? if you worry about dependencies, what about getting rid of "text" as a dependency? On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote: Hi all: I was retrieving bits and I saw the history of C programming language, and stop and read it because of late Dennis Ritchie and its legacy, and thought OK, it's good to seek what's the history of C in regards of the born of itself and of Unix tech-bed. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html It turned an interesting quick read until when I found the machine of their implementation and later to discover how the technical fact that generating assembly for it was a better idea to do it with some sort of macro-precessor (OK, not exactly C preprocessor, but sort of) out of that it then chunk chunk why it's that such would apply now, then I came back to look for the qeustion of C-- implementation: http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~dias/dissertation/dissertation.pdf So where is the trick here if we want to introduce Modula-3, the question was raised by the tool the NJ machine-code toolkit: http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/pubs/tk-usenix.html But then the problem for them was that this thesis above has dependence on that the NJ mc tk generates C and Modula-3, what amazing! I mean their problem is not ours, is our solution! Also the mld idea I have been thinking about, maybe it's time for us to try this in the cm3 too, to see whether we can avoid gcc like targets and dependencies. Thanks in advance -- 312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kcdurocher at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 02:16:08 2011 From: kcdurocher at gmail.com (Ken Durocher) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:16:08 -0500 Subject: [M3devel] Mersenne Twister in Modula-3, Error? Message-ID: I implemented the Mersenne Twister in Modula-3 some time ago, however when I test it out (the same test data that the authors of the Mersenne Twister used), the output is different. I tested this code on both 32 and 64 bit machines, and they both give me the same results, but the results are different from that of the original Mersenne Twister code. Here's the code: INTERFACE MT19937ar; IMPORT Word; PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T); PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER); PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T; PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER; PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL; PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL; PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL; END MT19937ar. (*********) MODULE MT19937ar; IMPORT Word; FROM Word IMPORT And, Xor, Or, RightShift, LeftShift; CONST n = 624; m = 397; matrix_a = 16_9908b0df; upper_mask = 16_80000000; lower_mask = 16_7fffffff; VAR mt: ARRAY [0..n] OF Word.T; mti := n + 1; PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T) = BEGIN mt[0] := And(s, 16_ffffffff); FOR mti := 1 TO n - 1 DO mt[mti] := 1812433253 * (Xor(mt[mti-1], RightShift(mt[mti-1], 30))) + mti; mt[mti] := And(mt[mti], 16_ffffffff); END; END initGenrand; PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER) = VAR i, j, k: INTEGER; BEGIN i := 1; j := 0; initGenrand(19650218); IF n > length THEN k := n ELSE k := length; END; WHILE k # 0 DO mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1664525) + key[j] + j; mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); INC(i); INC(j); IF i >= n THEN mt[0] := mt[n-1]; i := 1; END; IF j >= length THEN j := 0; END; DEC(k); END; k := n - 1; WHILE k # 0 DO mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1566083941) - i; mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); INC(i); IF i >= n THEN mt[0] := mt[n-1]; i := 1; END; DEC(k); END; mt[0] := 16_80000000; END initByArray; PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T = VAR y: Word.T; k: INTEGER := 0; mag01 := ARRAY [0..1] OF Word.T {0, matrix_a}; BEGIN IF mti >= n THEN IF mti = (n + 1) THEN initGenrand(5489); END; WHILE k < (n - m) DO y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+m], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); INC(k); END; WHILE k < (n - 1) DO y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+(m-n)], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); INC(k); END; y := Or(And(mt[n-1], upper_mask), And(mt[0], lower_mask)); mt[n-1] := Xor(Xor(mt[m-1], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); mti := 0; END; y := mt[mti]; INC(mti); y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 11)); y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 7), 16_9d2c5680)); y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 15), 16_efc60000)); y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 18)); RETURN y; END genrandInt32; PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER = BEGIN RETURN RightShift(genrandInt32(), 1); END genrandInt31; PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL = BEGIN RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967295.0); END genrandReal1; PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL = BEGIN RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); END genrandReal2; PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL = BEGIN RETURN (FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) + 0.5) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); END genrandReal3; BEGIN END MT19937ar. (********) MODULE Main; IMPORT IO, Fmt, MT19937ar; VAR init := ARRAY [0..3] OF INTEGER {16_123, 16_234, 16_345, 16_456}; len := 4; BEGIN MT19937ar.initByArray(init, len); IO.Put("Random integers: "); FOR i := 1 TO 999 DO IO.Put(Fmt.Unsigned(MT19937ar.genrandInt32(), base := 10)); IO.Put(" "); IF (i MOD 5) = 4 THEN IO.Put("\n"); END; END; IO.Put("\n"); END Main. And here is the first few numbers it outputs: 3499211612 581869302 3890346734 3586334585 ... Compare that to the first few numbers of output from the original Mersenne Twister code, in C: 1067595299 955945823 477289528 4107218783 ... Anyone know why they are different? Is the code wrong, or is it an implementation difference, or what? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop Wed Oct 19 18:20:17 2011 From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 11:20:17 -0500 Subject: [M3devel] Mersenne Twister in Modula-3, Error? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E9EF8C1.6030607@lcwb.coop> Can you post the C code you are comparing against? On 10/18/2011 07:16 PM, Ken Durocher wrote: > I implemented the Mersenne Twister in Modula-3 some time ago, however when I test it out (the same test data that the authors of the Mersenne Twister used), the output is different. I tested this code on both 32 and 64 bit machines, and they both give me the same results, but the results are different from that of the original Mersenne Twister code. > > Here's the code: > > INTERFACE MT19937ar; > > IMPORT Word; > > PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T); > PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER); > > PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T; > PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER; > PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL; > PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL; > PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL; > > END MT19937ar. > > (*********) > > MODULE MT19937ar; > > IMPORT Word; > FROM Word IMPORT And, Xor, Or, RightShift, LeftShift; > > CONST > n = 624; > m = 397; > matrix_a = 16_9908b0df; > upper_mask = 16_80000000; > lower_mask = 16_7fffffff; > > VAR > mt: ARRAY [0..n] OF Word.T; > mti := n + 1; > > PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T) = > BEGIN > mt[0] := And(s, 16_ffffffff); > FOR mti := 1 TO n - 1 DO > mt[mti] := 1812433253 * (Xor(mt[mti-1], RightShift(mt[mti-1], 30))) + mti; > mt[mti] := And(mt[mti], 16_ffffffff); > END; > END initGenrand; > > PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER) = > VAR i, j, k: INTEGER; > BEGIN > i := 1; j := 0; > initGenrand(19650218); > IF n > length THEN k := n ELSE k := length; END; > WHILE k # 0 DO > mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1664525) + > key[j] + j; > mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); > INC(i); INC(j); > IF i >= n THEN > mt[0] := mt[n-1]; > i := 1; > END; > > IF j >= length THEN > j := 0; > END; > DEC(k); > END; > > k := n - 1; > WHILE k # 0 DO > mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1566083941) - i; > mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); > INC(i); > IF i >= n THEN > mt[0] := mt[n-1]; > i := 1; > END; > DEC(k); > END; > > mt[0] := 16_80000000; > END initByArray; > > PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T = > VAR y: Word.T; > k: INTEGER := 0; > mag01 := ARRAY [0..1] OF Word.T {0, matrix_a}; > BEGIN > IF mti >= n THEN > IF mti = (n + 1) THEN > initGenrand(5489); > END; > > WHILE k < (n - m) DO > y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); > mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+m], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); > INC(k); > END; > WHILE k < (n - 1) DO > y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); > mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+(m-n)], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); > INC(k); > END; > > y := Or(And(mt[n-1], upper_mask), And(mt[0], lower_mask)); > mt[n-1] := Xor(Xor(mt[m-1], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); > mti := 0; > END; > > y := mt[mti]; > INC(mti); > > y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 11)); > y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 7), 16_9d2c5680)); > y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 15), 16_efc60000)); > y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 18)); > > RETURN y; > END genrandInt32; > > PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER = > BEGIN > RETURN RightShift(genrandInt32(), 1); > END genrandInt31; > > PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL = > BEGIN > RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967295.0); > END genrandReal1; > > PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL = > BEGIN > RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); > END genrandReal2; > > PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL = > BEGIN > RETURN (FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) + 0.5) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); > END genrandReal3; > > BEGIN > END MT19937ar. > > (********) > > MODULE Main; > > IMPORT IO, Fmt, MT19937ar; > > VAR init := ARRAY [0..3] OF INTEGER {16_123, 16_234, 16_345, 16_456}; > len := 4; > > BEGIN > MT19937ar.initByArray(init, len); > IO.Put("Random integers: "); > FOR i := 1 TO 999 DO > IO.Put(Fmt.Unsigned(MT19937ar.genrandInt32(), base := 10)); > IO.Put(" "); > IF (i MOD 5) = 4 THEN IO.Put("\n"); END; > END; > IO.Put("\n"); > END Main. > > And here is the first few numbers it outputs: > > 3499211612 581869302 3890346734 3586334585 ... > > Compare that to the first few numbers of output from the original Mersenne Twister code, in C: > > 1067595299 955945823 477289528 4107218783 ... > > Anyone know why they are different? Is the code wrong, or is it an implementation difference, or what? From wagner at elegosoft.com Tue Oct 25 15:25:20 2011 From: wagner at elegosoft.com (Olaf Wagner) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:25:20 +0200 Subject: [M3devel] [m3] some help with the libs needed. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111025152520.kjktc834ys4gs4gk@mail.elegosoft.com> Quoting Nils Reimelt : > Dear m3 Team, > > I'm needing the modula-3 libs TCP and Table but I get an > unable-to-find-message: > > > ..., line 4: unable to find interface (Table) > ..., line 4: unable to find interface (TCP) This is during compilation, correct? Have you imported the packages in your m3makefile: import("libm3") import("tcp") ? Olaf > On my Mac I see the lib directory /usr/local/cm3/lib and the libs seem > to be there: > ls | grep -i tcp > libm3tcp.5.2.dylib > libm3tcp.5.dylib > libm3tcp.a > libm3tcp.dylib > > But perhaps I have a path-problem? > I've set the two Lib-Paths, but nothing happens. > export DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=$DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/local/cm3/lib > ... > DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=:/usr/local/cm3/lib > LD_LIBRARY_PATH=:/usr/local/cm3/lib > > Critical Mass Modula-3 version d5.9.0 > last updated: 2010-07-21 > compiled: 2011-03-23 02:11:26 > > config file looks like this: > /usr/local/cm3/bin/cm3.cfg > > INSTALL_ROOT = (path() & SL & "..") > > include(path() & "/config/I386_DARWIN") > > Perhaps it has something to do that I installed only the core? > cm3-bin-core-I386_DARWIN-d5.9.0-i386-apple-darwin9.8.0-2011-03-23-02-05-49 > > > Thank you and best > Nils > -- Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 http://www.elegosoft.com | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194 From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop Sat Oct 1 00:11:34 2011 From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates) Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:11:34 -0500 Subject: [M3devel] quiet out here, everything ok? In-Reply-To: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> Message-ID: <4E863E96.60502@lcwb.coop> It came through to me. This will also serve as a check whether my ISP is still getting blacklisted, which stops my posts from getting to elego. On 09/30/2011 03:19 PM, Michael Anderson wrote: > No posts since last server maintenance, just checking.. > > apologies for the spam. > > Michael > From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 00:18:17 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> Message-ID: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Hi guys, Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running very nicely. My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 running. Kind regards, Mark. From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 03:06:58 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 01:06:58 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com>, <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? Porting is much much easier these days. Really, it is not difficult. If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix compliant, there is almost nothing to do. These are both true for Linux/ia64. Can you try? See http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain or just go ahead and cd scripts/python ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX It *might* just work. It will certainly almost work. There is really very little to it. There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. That is gone now. Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. That is gone now -- even for user threads. - Jay > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Hi guys, > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running very > nicely. > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 running. > > Kind regards, Mark. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 4 05:42:40 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 04:42:40 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: you might find surprisingly more clients for the same platform: http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.vms/2004-03/0130.html In the news of Ken Olsen's obituary, they mentioned how DEC was not about micros, then it would explain some interest on the language in that, besides not too many Mainframes machine are build this days, I would certainly interested in to take a look about what it can do about in OpenVMS (a native port of threads for instance, could be interesting). I don't know any Mainframe OSes, would run this days, Linux. If OpenVMS has the sources for purchase, would they license freely to construct replicas, etc? The post sounds it may take it up to that point if people gets involved. Obviously IA64 is just another beast but who cares that matter right now. OK, maybe there is that Modula-3 has its kind of EE, would you matter to ask what is that? http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/4236.991448 It could be that of DoD Generic Trusted Intermediaries GTI, which was constructed for among others Trusted Solaris and alike is related, But,the thing is who is using it right now or used it. doi:10.1080/10658989709342533 Thanks in advance --- El lun, 3/10/11, Mark Wickens escribi?: > De: Mark Wickens > Asunto: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Fecha: lunes, 3 de octubre, 2011 17:18 > Hi guys, > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium > architecture? > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all > running very nicely. > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting > Modula-3 running. > > Kind regards, Mark. > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 07:24:17 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 05:24:17 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk>, <1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: VMS is a more difficult port..except that it is approaching Posix these days. I had it far along, for Alpha. My system wasn't up to date wrt Posix features. Linux on IA64 should be very easy. - Jay > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 04:42:40 +0100 > From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com; mark at wickensonline.co.uk > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Hi all: > you might find surprisingly more clients for the same platform: > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.vms/2004-03/0130.html > > In the news of Ken Olsen's obituary, they mentioned how DEC was not about micros, then it would explain some interest on the language in that, besides not too many Mainframes machine are build this days, I would certainly interested in to take a look about what it can do about in OpenVMS (a native port of threads for instance, could be interesting). I don't know any Mainframe OSes, would run this days, Linux. If OpenVMS has the sources for purchase, would they license freely to construct replicas, etc? The post sounds it may take it up to that point if people gets involved. Obviously IA64 is just another beast but who cares that matter right now. > OK, maybe there is that Modula-3 has its kind of EE, would you matter to ask what is that? > http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/4236.991448 > > It could be that of DoD Generic Trusted Intermediaries GTI, which was constructed for among others Trusted Solaris and alike is related, But,the thing is who is using it right now or used it. > doi:10.1080/10658989709342533 > > Thanks in advance > > --- El lun, 3/10/11, Mark Wickens escribi?: > > > De: Mark Wickens > > Asunto: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Fecha: lunes, 3 de octubre, 2011 17:18 > > Hi guys, > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium > > architecture? > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all > > running very nicely. > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting > > Modula-3 running. > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 08:02:43 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> ,<4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Hi Jay, I've downloaded and unpacked -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the script scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave the box running. Regards, Mark. On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > Really, it is not difficult. > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > Can you try? > > > See > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > or just go ahead and > > > cd scripts/python > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > It *might* just work. > It will certainly almost work. > There is really very little to it. > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > That is gone now. > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > - Jay > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > very > > nicely. > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > running. > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 08:05:54 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 07:05:54 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> ,<1317699760.16995.YahooMailClassic@web29708.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317708354.1319.2.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Jay, If you do ever feel like tackling the problem again I can give you access to Alpha and IA64 OpenVMS boxes as required. Regards, Mark. On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 05:24 +0000, Jay K wrote: > VMS is a more difficult port..except that it is approaching Posix > these days. > I had it far along, for Alpha. My system wasn't up to date wrt Posix > features. > Linux on IA64 should be very easy. > > - Jay > > > > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 04:42:40 +0100 > > From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com; mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > Hi all: > > you might find surprisingly more clients for the same platform: > > http://unix.derkeiler.com/Newsgroups/comp.os.vms/2004-03/0130.html > > > > In the news of Ken Olsen's obituary, they mentioned how DEC was not > about micros, then it would explain some interest on the language in > that, besides not too many Mainframes machine are build this days, I > would certainly interested in to take a look about what it can do > about in OpenVMS (a native port of threads for instance, could be > interesting). I don't know any Mainframe OSes, would run this days, > Linux. If OpenVMS has the sources for purchase, would they license > freely to construct replicas, etc? The post sounds it may take it up > to that point if people gets involved. Obviously IA64 is just another > beast but who cares that matter right now. > > OK, maybe there is that Modula-3 has its kind of EE, would you > matter to ask what is that? > > http://www.computer.org/portal/web/csdl/doi/10.1109/4236.991448 > > > > It could be that of DoD Generic Trusted Intermediaries GTI, which > was constructed for among others Trusted Solaris and alike is related, > But,the thing is who is using it right now or used it. > > doi:10.1080/10658989709342533 > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > --- El lun, 3/10/11, Mark Wickens > escribi?: > > > > > De: Mark Wickens > > > Asunto: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Fecha: lunes, 3 de octubre, 2011 17:18 > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium > > > architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all > > > running very nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting > > > Modula-3 running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 08:04:54 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 06:04:54 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com>, , <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk>, , <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: Mark, don't download any .tgz.Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree.Later.. - Jay > Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 > > Hi Jay, > > I've downloaded and unpacked > > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz > > (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the script > scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. > > You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave the > box running. > > Regards, Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 08:09:36 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 07:09:36 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> ,,<4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> , ,<1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 06:04 +0000, Jay K wrote: > Mark, don't download any .tgz. > Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree. > Later.. OK, will do. However, even browsing cvs I didn't see the script you mentioned. Regards, Mark. > > - Jay > > > Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 > > > > Hi Jay, > > > > I've downloaded and unpacked > > > > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz > > -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz > > > > (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the > script > > scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. > > > > You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave > the > > box running. > > > > Regards, Mark. > > > > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > > Really, it is not difficult. > > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > > > > See > > > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > > It will certainly almost work. > > > There is really very little to it. > > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which > was > > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > > That is gone now. > > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > > very > > > > nicely. > > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > > running. > > > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > > > > > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 16:16:36 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:16:36 -0700 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: <82D0F450-15C9-4D4C-AB9D-BC665BE45FC5@gmail.com> Scripts/python/boot(something).py boot1.py? - Jay (phone) On Oct 3, 2011, at 11:09 PM, Mark Wickens wrote: > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 06:04 +0000, Jay K wrote: >> Mark, don't download any .tgz. >> Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree. >> Later.. > > OK, will do. > > However, even browsing cvs I didn't see the script you mentioned. > > Regards, Mark. > > >> >> - Jay >> >>> Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu >>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 >>> >>> Hi Jay, >>> >>> I've downloaded and unpacked >>> >>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>> >>> (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the >> script >>> scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. >>> >>> You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave >> the >>> box running. >>> >>> Regards, Mark. >>> >>> >>> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: >>>> Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? >>>> >>>> >>>> Porting is much much easier these days. >>>> Really, it is not difficult. >>>> If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix >>>> compliant, there is almost nothing to do. >>>> These are both true for Linux/ia64. >>>> >>>> >>>> Can you try? >>>> >>>> >>>> See >>>> >> http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain >>>> >>>> >>>> or just go ahead and >>>> >>>> >>>> cd scripts/python >>>> ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX >>>> >>>> >>>> It *might* just work. >>>> It will certainly almost work. >>>> There is really very little to it. >>>> There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. >>>> A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which >> was >>>> tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. >>>> That is gone now. >>>> Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. >>>> That is gone now -- even for user threads. >>>> >>>> >>>> - Jay >>>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 >>>>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>>>> To: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>>>> Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>>>> >>>>> Hi guys, >>>>> >>>>> Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? >>>>> I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running >>>> very >>>>> nicely. >>>>> My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 >>>> running. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, Mark. >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > From wagner at elegosoft.com Tue Oct 4 17:02:30 2011 From: wagner at elegosoft.com (Olaf Wagner) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 17:02:30 +0200 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <82D0F450-15C9-4D4C-AB9D-BC665BE45FC5@gmail.com> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> <1317708163.1319.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> <1317708576.1319.3.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> <82D0F450-15C9-4D4C-AB9D-BC665BE45FC5@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20111004170230.zm2otyxyck4ko4cc@mail.elegosoft.com> Quoting Jay : > Scripts/python/boot(something).py > boot1.py? see http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/scripts/python/ Olaf > - Jay (phone) > > On Oct 3, 2011, at 11:09 PM, Mark Wickens wrote: > >> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 06:04 +0000, Jay K wrote: >>> Mark, don't download any .tgz. >>> Use cvs to checkout the entire source tree. >>> Later.. >> >> OK, will do. >> >> However, even browsing cvs I didn't see the script you mentioned. >> >> Regards, Mark. >> >> >>> >>> - Jay >>> >>>> Subject: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>>> To: jay.krell at cornell.edu >>>> CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>>> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 07:02:43 +0100 >>>> >>>> Hi Jay, >>>> >>>> I've downloaded and unpacked >>>> >>>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 276571 Oct 4 06:51 cm3-scripts-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>>> -rw-r--r-- 1 msw msw 89649351 Oct 4 06:46 cm3-src-all-5.8.6-REL.tgz >>>> >>>> (I assume the first is contained in the 2nd?) but I don't see the >>> script >>>> scripts/python/bootstrap.py anywhere. >>>> >>>> You are welcome to ssh access, I'll just need to know when to leave >>> the >>>> box running. >>>> >>>> Regards, Mark. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: >>>>> Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Porting is much much easier these days. >>>>> Really, it is not difficult. >>>>> If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix >>>>> compliant, there is almost nothing to do. >>>>> These are both true for Linux/ia64. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Can you try? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> See >>>>> >>> http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> or just go ahead and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> cd scripts/python >>>>> ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It *might* just work. >>>>> It will certainly almost work. >>>>> There is really very little to it. >>>>> There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. >>>>> A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which >>> was >>>>> tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. >>>>> That is gone now. >>>>> Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. >>>>> That is gone now -- even for user threads. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - Jay >>>>> >>>>>> Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 >>>>>> From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk >>>>>> To: m3devel at elegosoft.com >>>>>> Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi guys, >>>>>> >>>>>> Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? >>>>>> I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running >>>>> very >>>>>> nicely. >>>>>> My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 >>>>> running. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kind regards, Mark. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> > -- Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 http://www.elegosoft.com | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194 From mark at wickensonline.co.uk Tue Oct 4 20:06:44 2011 From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk (Mark Wickens) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com> ,<4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk> Message-ID: <1317751604.1317.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Jay, I tried this: msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): File "./boot1.py", line 5, in import pylib File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? Mark. On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > Really, it is not difficult. > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > Can you try? > > > See > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > or just go ahead and > > > cd scripts/python > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > It *might* just work. > It will certainly almost work. > There is really very little to it. > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > That is gone now. > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > - Jay > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > Hi guys, > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > very > > nicely. > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > running. > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > From jay.krell at cornell.edu Tue Oct 4 22:57:12 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 20:57:12 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317751604.1317.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> References: <4E86246D.7070006@elegosoft.com>, , <4E8A34A9.6070704@wickensonline.co.uk>, , <1317751604.1317.1.camel@zx6000.hecnet.eu> Message-ID: Sorry. More/correct instruction: Don't set any CM3 environment variables. Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. On that machine run that script. It may or may not work. If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine. (I use scp.) tar xfz it. cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp make Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? You are signed up to waste time, right? :) Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 4 23:58:32 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1317765512.35058.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.krell at cornell.edu Wed Oct 5 00:11:38 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:11:38 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317765512.35058.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: , <1317765512.35058.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. - Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 Sorry. More/correct instruction: Don't set any CM3 environment variables. Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. On that machine run that script. It may or may not work. If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine. (I use scp.) tar xfz it. cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp make Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? You are signed up to waste time, right? :) Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Wed Oct 5 00:28:00 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 23:28:00 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1317767280.50020.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv928561254 .yiv928561254ExternalClass #yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv928561254 .yiv928561254ExternalClass #yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv928561254ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Thu Oct 6 17:20:42 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:20:42 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317767280.50020.YahooMailClassic@web29711.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317914442.45261.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv110013530 .yiv110013530ExternalClass #yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv110013530 .yiv110013530ExternalClass #yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv110013530ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Thu Oct 6 17:31:08 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:31:08 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317914442.45261.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1317915068.89417.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: for instance: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/05/18/james_on_arm_and_windows/ Again sorry for any inconvenience I may cause by this stuff. The argument seems to be we did that already (ix86 and from AMD_64 for 8086) and don't think it's a good idea to do it again. I sort of disagree given the AMD64 support for that arguing. Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:20 Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv283771742 .yiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv283771742 .yiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jay.krell at cornell.edu Thu Oct 6 17:51:22 2011 From: jay.krell at cornell.edu (Jay K) Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 15:51:22 +0000 Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: <1317915068.89417.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com> References: <1317914442.45261.YahooMailClassic@web29706.mail.ird.yahoo.com>, <1317915068.89417.YahooMailClassic@web29714.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Daniel I think you are maybe saying that either we need to write an NT/ARM backend like we have for NT/x86, or we need to generate C, or something else. Yes. True. I want to generate C. That should greatly reduce future porting work, might compile faster, might compile slower, will provide tremendous and portable debugability gains (and some debuggability loss on some systems). Writing other processor/OS specific backends is surely fun and interesting too, but more work, more difficult, and less value. We should also look into generating Java and/or C# and/or Microsoft .NET IL, i.e. for Windows Phone but this is an even larger tangent. C# has optional unsafety so is a somewhat different topic than generating Java. But this is still tangential to the topic at hand, and it is still very difficult to understand anything you say. Linux/ia64 can plod along just fine using the existing gcc backend. NT/ARM might be able to too eventually. NT/AMD64 certainly could. Mark, please try out what I said and ignore all the speculating. Linux/ia64 can be made to work without much change to the existing system. Daniel's tangent: VMS isn't clearly as easy, but it has definite potential. gcc does support VMS/Alpha. So does binutils. I have a working gcc cross compiler and linker to target VMS/Alpha. That is an important piece. It was enough to build a native gcc for VMS/Alpha, that didn't work, but probably only because I was missing environment variables on the target (to find headers/libraries). These are important pieces, given our current situation (ie: no C generating backend). But I have approximately zero time to devote to this stuff any longer, sorry. - Jay Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:31:08 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Hi all: for instance: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/05/18/james_on_arm_and_windows/ Again sorry for any inconvenience I may cause by this stuff. The argument seems to be we did that already (ix86 and from AMD_64 for 8086) and don't think it's a good idea to do it again. I sort of disagree given the AMD64 support for that arguing. Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:20 Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. - Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 Sorry. More/correct instruction: Don't set any CM3 environment variables. Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. On that machine run that script. It may or may not work. If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine. (I use scp.) tar xfz it. cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp make Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? You are signed up to waste time, right? :) Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Sun Oct 9 18:37:21 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Sun, 9 Oct 2011 17:37:21 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1318178241.96053.YahooMailClassic@web29715.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: that's a wonderful idea, still, this virtual machinery lacks module management (you have sort this out with Segmentation in HW and so). The main con against this is due the subtleties of being Safe code the one responsible for getting CPU traps as? RT exceptions, I only known of certain hardware drivers written in Modula-3 for controlling MMU, there we would have a point to ask a complete software environment and machine system in a type safe language (memory and instruction errors, etc). I knew of somebody working in this arena sort of looking behind the Module hardware idea but he moved up to Python, then it follows it must be UNSAFE code is the one responsible of this kind of machine support, or one if type safe VIEW operator type system coercion support, but controlled by the RT, which is something we could ask for ESC for interpreting in a logic manner if so. Instead if the case is important we could manage to support JVM and .Net bytecodes safely if that's the way of them to support their platforms. I guess Java explored this approach in the Java Guest VM approach: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHIaH12f2Ek This is more or less the same idea, but instead of supporting Xen, we would rather run unmodified M3 (done) and export interfaces for JVM and .NET, etc and facilitate the hypervisor support Win is trying to verify (100k LoC C code verification estimated effort of 60 years of man work), with its new systems I think the man behind this ported a product to Modula-3 of this class (MIPS isa PPSIM, which I have no much support information, about bogomips, but that's why ask the support of ESC to be able to optimize this further than UNSAFE code efficiency that's part of a not true statement or misconception if I may say so). Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:51 Daniel I think you are maybe saying that either we need to write an NT/ARM backend like we have for NT/x86, or we need to generate C, or something else. Yes. True. I want to generate C. That should greatly reduce future porting work, might compile faster, might compile slower, will provide tremendous and portable debugability gains (and some debuggability loss on some systems). Writing other processor/OS specific backends is surely fun and interesting too, but more work, more difficult, and less value. We should also look into generating Java and/or C# and/or Microsoft .NET IL, i.e. for Windows Phone but this is an even larger tangent. C# has optional unsafety so is a somewhat different topic than generating Java. But this is still tangential to the topic at hand, and it is still very difficult to understand anything you say. Linux/ia64 can plod along just fine using the existing gcc backend. NT/ARM might be able to too eventually. NT/AMD64 certainly could. Mark, please try out what I said and ignore all the speculating. Linux/ia64 can be made to work without much change to the existing system. Daniel's tangent: VMS isn't clearly as easy, but it has definite potential. gcc does support VMS/Alpha. So does binutils. I have a working gcc cross compiler and linker to target VMS/Alpha. That is an important piece. It was enough to build a native gcc for VMS/Alpha, that didn't work, but probably only because I was missing environment variables on the target (to find headers/libraries). These are important pieces, given our current situation (ie: no C generating backend). But I have approximately zero time to devote to this stuff any longer, sorry. ?- Jay Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2011 16:31:08 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Hi all: for instance: http://forums.theregister.co.uk/forum/2/2011/05/18/james_on_arm_and_windows/ Again sorry for any inconvenience I may cause by this stuff. The argument seems to be we did that already (ix86 and from AMD_64 for 8086) and don't think it's a good idea to do it again. I sort of disagree given the AMD64 support for that arguing. Thanks in advance --- El jue, 6/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: jueves, 6 de octubre, 2011 10:20 Hi all: my point is just to say, we would need alter SPIN protocol to load the M3RT without the WinRT (nor Win32), isn't that what you wanted Jay, sorry if not what you mentioned once? I mean you sort of wanted to drop C Windows dependences, well unless we develop further the idea, we won't be advancing too much in W8 arena and this is coming very soon, worse that we won't have much HW to boot any other OS that one would want to support, but we could provide the VM images for them. It tourns out that OpenVMS had something to do with DEC-WRL which loved Modula-2, and the things they used had relation with that in their VMS, as a side story they tried to promote their language without too much success: http://billwake.blogspot.com/1997_05_01_archive.html This is portrait in some external parts of the VMS freeware, like here: http://ia64.vsm.com.au/conan/sys$common/syslib/sys$starlet_c.tlb?search=x I think DEC had a NT386 ahead of time interpreter for NT Alpha, we could move faster from that as well in these platforms, using our own MIPS VM, for commonly used OSes (cross-compiling from Linux host which is what we lack as for now): http://www.usenix.org/publications/library/proceedings/usenix-nt97/full_papers/chernoff/chernoff.pdf The cost associated with this is not as high as having OS ready but merely device drivers, and or the VM machinery like for OSF, etc and stuff. Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. escribi?: De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk, "Jay K" CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:28 Hi all: yeah, but as you said it is bigger problem if we get to afford a machine to boot from, this is to say, can we create boots from W8 machine from source to OpenVMS. This is a big question, and the thing is what is the W8 idea boot from anything but OSS (who was/is the OpenVMs engineer), then it is a sound question if the future is W8, where is the OpenVMS guy here (Mark you do know so surely). Well that's the question, I think. Can you solve it, and why not or why is not that the question here? Tell me if doesn't make that sense to you. I would be peacefully leave the email if not, I have the right I mean you have the doubt, don't you? Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: RE: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es, mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 17:11 #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 body.yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Daniel, please discuss SPIN and alternate m3core implementations on another thread. Your links seem generally interesting, but you only seem to take a shred of a hint from our conversations and go all out on rambly tangents. I do that too sometimes, granted. I almost did here, about quake vs. Python.. m3core in kernel or user mode... Mark please ignore Daniel for purposes of bringing up CM3 on IA64. ?- Jay Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 22:58:32 +0100 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? To: mark at wickensonline.co.uk; jay.krell at cornell.edu CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com Hi all: I wish more akin the spin approach to skip m3core not embedded to compile assembly and link, with standalone C quake (5K loc or so) was enough in a cross platfrom way. The main thing thing is that we would need a very sophisticated apparatus with VM, e.g Mark have you any VM inside (where this sounds like a good task to implement if there is such, I Imagine kqemu is on IA64, right? If not, then this is too onerous, I mean we would need a VM to start with, or at least a driver if we we want this to perform as quickly as possible). I don't know but perhaps you could boot one OS on all machines by just one VM, and then move forward every CPU and OS. The positive side of this is we get a powerful enough VM to boot from (OpenVMS supported), we can solve an intrinsic problem in CM3 and all, the need to get? trapped errors, like machine traps isolated handled by the OS. There is a complete MSc thesis to sort this out but I haven't get it, if somebody can make a clue of how to get it, that would be great (author is not too much available for doing this work again, at least we could see how that went that way). http://www.unive.it/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=26764 Python sounds good for the start to boot everything else on it (if quake it's too lame, right Jay, if so, or tell me please if it isn't what doyou think about it). http://www.imada.sdu.dk/~joan/security/sec.ps I know that the guys working with Shared Data Abstractions explored more the quake idea, like MP quake, if that's what they called that: http://books.google.com/books?ei=dH6LTuzbBcqctwfM0eiSAw&ct=result&id=_6RVAAAAMAAJ However I'm not saying that just that sorts out the problem, perhaps a more integrated development environment is needed (AST based like Olivetti STL planned it or wrote some part of it, but who cares or who used it anyway, perhaps like CAMEL in ARX OS, the useful part would be the interpreter but for more pedagogical purposes rather than that or if that's the thing we like Baby Modula-3, etc, where objects are not imperative just functional or if you want them then Obliq might appear then), something akin Vulcano and parallel make, but I don't have articles about it to say that . Thanks in advance --- El mar, 4/10/11, Jay K escribi?: De: Jay K Asunto: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? Para: mark at wickensonline.co.uk CC: "m3devel" Fecha: martes, 4 de octubre, 2011 15:57 #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage P {padding:0px;} #yiv2008894693 .yiv2008894693ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742 .yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ExternalClass #yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698 body.yiv2008894693ecxyiv283771742ecxyiv1998844698hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Sorry. More/correct instruction: ?Don't set any CM3 environment variables. ?Just make sure some cm3 is in $PATH. ?Go to a machine with a working cm3. Windows probably not preferred, but it might work. ?On that machine run that script. ? It may or may not work. ? If it doesn't work, the errors shouldn't be terrible. You should investigate them. Report them here if stumped (or if you progress). ? Once it works, you'll have like cm3-IA64_LINUX-timestamp.tar.gz. ? You copy that .tar.gz to your Linux/ia64 machine.? (I use scp.) ? tar xfz it. ? cd cm3-IA64-LINUX-timestamp ? make? ? Which may or may not work, but should make a lot of progress. ??? Once that works, well..more later. It is a major step, but there is a little more to do. ? You might have to edit the top of the Makefile. ?I can predict where the problems will be, but let's see how it goes with minimum hinting from me, ok? ?You are signed up to waste time, right? :) ?Let us know, and please don't give up quickly, thank you, ? - Jay > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > To: jay.krell at cornell.edu > Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2011 19:06:44 +0100 > CC: m3devel at elegosoft.com > Subject: Re: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > Jay, > > I tried this: > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ echo $CM3_INSTALL > /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/ > > msw at zx6000 /usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python $ ./boot1.py > IA64_LINUXTraceback (most recent call last): > File "./boot1.py", line 5, in > import pylib > File "/usr/local/cm3-build/cm3/scripts/python/pylib.py", line 569, in > > for a in os.popen(CM3 + " -version 2>/dev/null"): > TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'NoneType' and 'str' > > Am I missing the executable 'cm3'? > > Mark. > > > On Tue, 2011-10-04 at 01:06 +0000, Jay K wrote: > > Can you give me or any of us ssh access to it? > > > > > > Porting is much much easier these days. > > Really, it is not difficult. > > If gcc supports the target and the target is reasonably Posix > > compliant, there is almost nothing to do. > > These are both true for Linux/ia64. > > > > > > Can you try? > > > > > > See > > http://modula3.elegosoft.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/cm3/doc/notes/porting.txt?rev=1.6;content-type=text%2Fplain > > > > > > or just go ahead and > > > > > > cd scripts/python > > ./bootstrap.py IA64_LINUX > > > > > > It *might* just work. > > It will certainly almost work. > > There is really very little to it. > > There never was a whole lot really, but there is a lot less now. > > A big part used to be rewriting /usr/include in Modula-3, which was > > tedious, error-prone, and unsafe. > > That is gone now. > > Before pthreads, another part was dissecting jmpbuf. > > That is gone now -- even for user threads. > > > > > > - Jay > > > > > Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2011 23:18:17 +0100 > > > From: mark at wickensonline.co.uk > > > To: m3devel at elegosoft.com > > > Subject: [M3devel] CM3 on IA64? > > > > > > Hi guys, > > > > > > Has anyone attempted a port of CM3 to Itanium architecture? > > > I've recently installed gentoo on my ZX6000 and it's all running > > very > > > nicely. > > > My thoughts turned to what would be involved in getting Modula-3 > > running. > > > > > > Kind regards, Mark. > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 18 04:51:35 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 03:51:35 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] About this issue when compiling small machines and bigger machines with Gcc Message-ID: <1318906295.9231.YahooMailClassic@web29710.mail.ird.yahoo.com> Hi all: I was retrieving bits and I saw the history of C programming language, and stop and read it because of late Dennis Ritchie and its legacy, and thought OK, it's good to seek what's the history of C in regards of the born of itself and of Unix tech-bed. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html It turned an interesting quick read until when I found the machine of their implementation and later to discover how the technical fact that generating assembly for it was a better idea to do it with some sort of macro-precessor (OK, not exactly C preprocessor, but sort of) out of that it then chunk chunk why it's that such would apply now, then I came back to look for the qeustion of C-- implementation: http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~dias/dissertation/dissertation.pdf So where is the trick here if we want to introduce Modula-3, the question was raised by the tool the NJ machine-code toolkit: http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/pubs/tk-usenix.html But then the problem for them was that this thesis above has dependence on that the NJ mc tk generates C and Modula-3, what amazing! I mean their problem is not ours, is our solution! Also the mld idea I have been thinking about, maybe it's time for us to try this in the cm3 too, to see whether we can avoid gcc like targets and dependencies. Thanks in advance From dabenavidesd at yahoo.es Tue Oct 18 05:47:55 2011 From: dabenavidesd at yahoo.es (Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 04:47:55 +0100 (BST) Subject: [M3devel] About this issue when compiling small machines and bigger machines with Gcc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1318909675.90775.YahooMailClassic@web29718.mail.ird.yahoo.com> HI: I think is the same question I was thinking if I may quit gcc, this practically means this C dependence is not that good anyway, but putting in perspective gcc is late to be rewritten as planned in C++ (not a good task or that easy, but that's someone else flaw, not gcc, since C++ is just C ++, isn't C++ ) But companies are getting close to this in open64.org for instance they are pushing hard, and they had this CG very special for MIPS and that's nice work,? but us is to run above everything on the market or even backwards? compatibilities too, so, this isn't that hard why it would be needed gcc, you are kind of supporting people projects, but let's move on, for instance today I read about the acceptance of samba team project to allow other's machine code to run over samba net, you know like that printer is still in your office but need to print from a legacy system and or an old driver that needs to communicate with samba,etc, by accepting others licenses and copyright holders linked in their code (I mean for instance nice if you could get OS/2 support, then you have a point to support later this platform with samba, you know, legacy apps work better with a real than a virtual machine, don't you think, and there very good systems, for instance, the KLR machine I think had an OS/2 kernel based for SMP, and Modula-3* target it, why we would want to omit such target). http://compilers.iecc.com/comparch/article/94-09-013 I even think today this kind of machines are in architecturally S-g-i NUMAs of today, like e.g open64.org So this is the question who cares that anyway. Thanks in advance --- El lun, 17/10/11, felipe valdez escribi?: De: felipe valdez Asunto: Re: [M3devel] About this issue when compiling small machines and bigger machines with Gcc Para: "Daniel Alejandro Benavides D." Fecha: lunes, 17 de octubre, 2011 22:09 why would one to avoid gcc, cine it is industry-supported, and ported to many plattforms exactly? just to re-do their work? if you worry about dependencies, what about getting rid of "text" as a dependency? On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 9:51 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote: Hi all: I was retrieving bits and I saw the history of C programming language, and stop and read it because of late Dennis Ritchie and its legacy, and thought OK, it's good to seek what's the history of C in regards of the born of itself and of Unix tech-bed. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/chist.html It turned an interesting quick read until when I found the machine of their implementation and later to discover how the technical fact that generating assembly for it was a better idea to do it with some sort of macro-precessor (OK, not exactly C preprocessor, but sort of) out of that it then chunk chunk why it's that such would apply now, then I came back to look for the qeustion of C-- implementation: http://www.eecs.tufts.edu/~dias/dissertation/dissertation.pdf So where is the trick here if we want to introduce Modula-3, the question was raised by the tool the NJ machine-code toolkit: http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/pubs/tk-usenix.html But then the problem for them was that this thesis above has dependence on that the NJ mc tk generates C and Modula-3, what amazing! I mean their problem is not ours, is our solution! Also the mld idea I have been thinking about, maybe it's time for us to try this in the cm3 too, to see whether we can avoid gcc like targets and dependencies. Thanks in advance -- 312-444-2124Skype: f3l.headhunterCasa: 8043901 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kcdurocher at gmail.com Wed Oct 19 02:16:08 2011 From: kcdurocher at gmail.com (Ken Durocher) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 19:16:08 -0500 Subject: [M3devel] Mersenne Twister in Modula-3, Error? Message-ID: I implemented the Mersenne Twister in Modula-3 some time ago, however when I test it out (the same test data that the authors of the Mersenne Twister used), the output is different. I tested this code on both 32 and 64 bit machines, and they both give me the same results, but the results are different from that of the original Mersenne Twister code. Here's the code: INTERFACE MT19937ar; IMPORT Word; PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T); PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER); PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T; PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER; PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL; PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL; PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL; END MT19937ar. (*********) MODULE MT19937ar; IMPORT Word; FROM Word IMPORT And, Xor, Or, RightShift, LeftShift; CONST n = 624; m = 397; matrix_a = 16_9908b0df; upper_mask = 16_80000000; lower_mask = 16_7fffffff; VAR mt: ARRAY [0..n] OF Word.T; mti := n + 1; PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T) = BEGIN mt[0] := And(s, 16_ffffffff); FOR mti := 1 TO n - 1 DO mt[mti] := 1812433253 * (Xor(mt[mti-1], RightShift(mt[mti-1], 30))) + mti; mt[mti] := And(mt[mti], 16_ffffffff); END; END initGenrand; PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER) = VAR i, j, k: INTEGER; BEGIN i := 1; j := 0; initGenrand(19650218); IF n > length THEN k := n ELSE k := length; END; WHILE k # 0 DO mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1664525) + key[j] + j; mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); INC(i); INC(j); IF i >= n THEN mt[0] := mt[n-1]; i := 1; END; IF j >= length THEN j := 0; END; DEC(k); END; k := n - 1; WHILE k # 0 DO mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1566083941) - i; mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); INC(i); IF i >= n THEN mt[0] := mt[n-1]; i := 1; END; DEC(k); END; mt[0] := 16_80000000; END initByArray; PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T = VAR y: Word.T; k: INTEGER := 0; mag01 := ARRAY [0..1] OF Word.T {0, matrix_a}; BEGIN IF mti >= n THEN IF mti = (n + 1) THEN initGenrand(5489); END; WHILE k < (n - m) DO y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+m], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); INC(k); END; WHILE k < (n - 1) DO y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+(m-n)], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); INC(k); END; y := Or(And(mt[n-1], upper_mask), And(mt[0], lower_mask)); mt[n-1] := Xor(Xor(mt[m-1], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); mti := 0; END; y := mt[mti]; INC(mti); y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 11)); y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 7), 16_9d2c5680)); y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 15), 16_efc60000)); y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 18)); RETURN y; END genrandInt32; PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER = BEGIN RETURN RightShift(genrandInt32(), 1); END genrandInt31; PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL = BEGIN RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967295.0); END genrandReal1; PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL = BEGIN RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); END genrandReal2; PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL = BEGIN RETURN (FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) + 0.5) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); END genrandReal3; BEGIN END MT19937ar. (********) MODULE Main; IMPORT IO, Fmt, MT19937ar; VAR init := ARRAY [0..3] OF INTEGER {16_123, 16_234, 16_345, 16_456}; len := 4; BEGIN MT19937ar.initByArray(init, len); IO.Put("Random integers: "); FOR i := 1 TO 999 DO IO.Put(Fmt.Unsigned(MT19937ar.genrandInt32(), base := 10)); IO.Put(" "); IF (i MOD 5) = 4 THEN IO.Put("\n"); END; END; IO.Put("\n"); END Main. And here is the first few numbers it outputs: 3499211612 581869302 3890346734 3586334585 ... Compare that to the first few numbers of output from the original Mersenne Twister code, in C: 1067595299 955945823 477289528 4107218783 ... Anyone know why they are different? Is the code wrong, or is it an implementation difference, or what? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rodney_bates at lcwb.coop Wed Oct 19 18:20:17 2011 From: rodney_bates at lcwb.coop (Rodney M. Bates) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 11:20:17 -0500 Subject: [M3devel] Mersenne Twister in Modula-3, Error? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E9EF8C1.6030607@lcwb.coop> Can you post the C code you are comparing against? On 10/18/2011 07:16 PM, Ken Durocher wrote: > I implemented the Mersenne Twister in Modula-3 some time ago, however when I test it out (the same test data that the authors of the Mersenne Twister used), the output is different. I tested this code on both 32 and 64 bit machines, and they both give me the same results, but the results are different from that of the original Mersenne Twister code. > > Here's the code: > > INTERFACE MT19937ar; > > IMPORT Word; > > PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T); > PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER); > > PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T; > PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER; > PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL; > PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL; > PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL; > > END MT19937ar. > > (*********) > > MODULE MT19937ar; > > IMPORT Word; > FROM Word IMPORT And, Xor, Or, RightShift, LeftShift; > > CONST > n = 624; > m = 397; > matrix_a = 16_9908b0df; > upper_mask = 16_80000000; > lower_mask = 16_7fffffff; > > VAR > mt: ARRAY [0..n] OF Word.T; > mti := n + 1; > > PROCEDURE initGenrand(s: Word.T) = > BEGIN > mt[0] := And(s, 16_ffffffff); > FOR mti := 1 TO n - 1 DO > mt[mti] := 1812433253 * (Xor(mt[mti-1], RightShift(mt[mti-1], 30))) + mti; > mt[mti] := And(mt[mti], 16_ffffffff); > END; > END initGenrand; > > PROCEDURE initByArray(key: ARRAY OF Word.T; length: INTEGER) = > VAR i, j, k: INTEGER; > BEGIN > i := 1; j := 0; > initGenrand(19650218); > IF n > length THEN k := n ELSE k := length; END; > WHILE k # 0 DO > mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1664525) + > key[j] + j; > mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); > INC(i); INC(j); > IF i >= n THEN > mt[0] := mt[n-1]; > i := 1; > END; > > IF j >= length THEN > j := 0; > END; > DEC(k); > END; > > k := n - 1; > WHILE k # 0 DO > mt[i] := Xor(mt[i], Xor(mt[i-1], RightShift(mt[i-1], 30)) * 1566083941) - i; > mt[i] := And(mt[i], 16_ffffffff); > INC(i); > IF i >= n THEN > mt[0] := mt[n-1]; > i := 1; > END; > DEC(k); > END; > > mt[0] := 16_80000000; > END initByArray; > > PROCEDURE genrandInt32(): Word.T = > VAR y: Word.T; > k: INTEGER := 0; > mag01 := ARRAY [0..1] OF Word.T {0, matrix_a}; > BEGIN > IF mti >= n THEN > IF mti = (n + 1) THEN > initGenrand(5489); > END; > > WHILE k < (n - m) DO > y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); > mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+m], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); > INC(k); > END; > WHILE k < (n - 1) DO > y := Or(And(mt[k], upper_mask), And(mt[k+1], lower_mask)); > mt[k] := Xor(Xor(mt[k+(m-n)], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); > INC(k); > END; > > y := Or(And(mt[n-1], upper_mask), And(mt[0], lower_mask)); > mt[n-1] := Xor(Xor(mt[m-1], RightShift(y, 1)), mag01[And(y, 1)]); > mti := 0; > END; > > y := mt[mti]; > INC(mti); > > y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 11)); > y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 7), 16_9d2c5680)); > y := Xor(y, And(LeftShift(y, 15), 16_efc60000)); > y := Xor(y, RightShift(y, 18)); > > RETURN y; > END genrandInt32; > > PROCEDURE genrandInt31(): INTEGER = > BEGIN > RETURN RightShift(genrandInt32(), 1); > END genrandInt31; > > PROCEDURE genrandReal1(): REAL = > BEGIN > RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967295.0); > END genrandReal1; > > PROCEDURE genrandReal2(): REAL = > BEGIN > RETURN FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); > END genrandReal2; > > PROCEDURE genrandReal3(): REAL = > BEGIN > RETURN (FLOAT(genrandInt32(), REAL) + 0.5) * (1.0 / 4294967296.0); > END genrandReal3; > > BEGIN > END MT19937ar. > > (********) > > MODULE Main; > > IMPORT IO, Fmt, MT19937ar; > > VAR init := ARRAY [0..3] OF INTEGER {16_123, 16_234, 16_345, 16_456}; > len := 4; > > BEGIN > MT19937ar.initByArray(init, len); > IO.Put("Random integers: "); > FOR i := 1 TO 999 DO > IO.Put(Fmt.Unsigned(MT19937ar.genrandInt32(), base := 10)); > IO.Put(" "); > IF (i MOD 5) = 4 THEN IO.Put("\n"); END; > END; > IO.Put("\n"); > END Main. > > And here is the first few numbers it outputs: > > 3499211612 581869302 3890346734 3586334585 ... > > Compare that to the first few numbers of output from the original Mersenne Twister code, in C: > > 1067595299 955945823 477289528 4107218783 ... > > Anyone know why they are different? Is the code wrong, or is it an implementation difference, or what? From wagner at elegosoft.com Tue Oct 25 15:25:20 2011 From: wagner at elegosoft.com (Olaf Wagner) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2011 15:25:20 +0200 Subject: [M3devel] [m3] some help with the libs needed. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20111025152520.kjktc834ys4gs4gk@mail.elegosoft.com> Quoting Nils Reimelt : > Dear m3 Team, > > I'm needing the modula-3 libs TCP and Table but I get an > unable-to-find-message: > > > ..., line 4: unable to find interface (Table) > ..., line 4: unable to find interface (TCP) This is during compilation, correct? Have you imported the packages in your m3makefile: import("libm3") import("tcp") ? Olaf > On my Mac I see the lib directory /usr/local/cm3/lib and the libs seem > to be there: > ls | grep -i tcp > libm3tcp.5.2.dylib > libm3tcp.5.dylib > libm3tcp.a > libm3tcp.dylib > > But perhaps I have a path-problem? > I've set the two Lib-Paths, but nothing happens. > export DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=$DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/local/cm3/lib > ... > DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH=:/usr/local/cm3/lib > LD_LIBRARY_PATH=:/usr/local/cm3/lib > > Critical Mass Modula-3 version d5.9.0 > last updated: 2010-07-21 > compiled: 2011-03-23 02:11:26 > > config file looks like this: > /usr/local/cm3/bin/cm3.cfg > > INSTALL_ROOT = (path() & SL & "..") > > include(path() & "/config/I386_DARWIN") > > Perhaps it has something to do that I installed only the core? > cm3-bin-core-I386_DARWIN-d5.9.0-i386-apple-darwin9.8.0-2011-03-23-02-05-49 > > > Thank you and best > Nils > -- Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25 / Geb?ude 12, 13355 Berlin, Germany phone: +49 30 23 45 86 96 mobile: +49 177 2345 869 fax: +49 30 23 45 86 95 http://www.elegosoft.com | Gesch?ftsf?hrer: Olaf Wagner | Sitz: Berlin Handelregister: Amtsgericht Charlottenburg HRB 77719 | USt-IdNr: DE163214194