[M3devel] M3devel Digest, Vol 56, Issue 29

[felipe valdez]

hi, thanks for your prompt response.

2011/6/28 Dragiša Durić <dragisha at m3w.org>

> I had a discussion few days ago with a friend, programmer-for-hire doing
> python.
>
> My question is - what to teach my 14yr old son who is willing to learn
> programming this summer.
>
> His answer: "I remember slashdot discussion, they recommended python in the
> end and the best argument I saw was: PyGTK".
>
> My conclusion: If we want (do we?) more users using Modula-3 then we must
> think more GTK+ less Algorithm Animation, less Juno-2. (Don't think I don't
> respect these projects, I just think they are too deep to be what we present
> first).
>
>

this is a fairly interesting question.

the more users, the more traction, the more libraries, the more activity,
the more stuff to learn, etc.

also, the more users, the more real needs, from real users, which might
drive the language forward in its usefulness.


but, on the other hand, for those who do $work in m3, it would be a bad
thing, since a lot of competition would be brought forward, and also a lot
of bad code with it (generators, etc).

so, the big question, is if it would be a desirable thing, to have a larger
userbase.

other companies, and language people, DO all the time try to get more people
(by doing cool demos and stuff).




> Just because lots of us here think garbage collector (not function, but
> algorithms and code) is cool it doesn't mean it is Modula-3 "selling point"!
>
> I have some "down to Earth" things done with Modula-3 like FastCGI, PDF
> with TTF subsetting, scripting engine, runtime support for shared libraries
> (think plugins here)... Also some GTK+..
>

the main reason for this to be useful for others, is that if there is a
small videotutorial showing how to use it, the barrier of entry gets even
lower.

with a lot of source code contributed, there is a need for documentation.

but still, I guess most would welcome your kind contribution, without any
previous conditions.



> I believe other people here did various things of same "down to Earth"
> class... For lots of people Python-is-good just because they did a lot of
> binding automation.
>
> Can we do it too? Can we make Modula-3 down-to-Earth? Think GUIs, Think
> Databases, Think Scripting/Gluing engine, Think easy to install
> distributions (people here did a lot to achieve this),
>

I agree, perhaps me blaming them for not having it is just me being ignorant
of their efforts.

but clearly, from the main cm3 page, there isn't a clear path towards a
"getting started",
it takes work just to setup the engine (for newbies like me at least), this
is where a python "batteries included" approach excels at bringing people
into the language.



> Think Robotics.
>
> I think we can. But not on same list where people dig internals and hack
> gcc. m3distro, for example... And along that way - m3user, m3newbie.
>
>


I also agree that m3devel is not the place for the m3newbies, if such list
exists, I'd like to join it! (haven't found the URL)
if it doesn't, then we should create it in google groups!




> To that end, I am willing to contribute majority of my code and help
> straighten it on Linux, OSX and Windows. But we need a coordinator for this,
> someone to drive Modula-3 nearer to kid next door. Daniel, you?
>
> dd
>
> On Jun 28, 2011, at 4:37 PM, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. wrote:
>
> Ji all:
> I think IMHO that the users capabilities are not the main issue here,
> user's ideal it might, I believe there are several examples of that,
> Multimedia Modula-3, Jigsaw Modula-3 Modular-oriented programming,
> Object-Oriented programming (Obliq), hi-tech applications Juno-2, ESC
> (Simplify) and they're just a few I can mention, but I'm sure there are
> others Algorithm Animation, etc.
> Given that I think still there are several issues, one of them portability,
> however a lot of work onto that before and now, in Win* systems, original
> Win32 platform and so I guess is the matter of interest to keep it alive,
> the ones will ell how much you can get of new old users (again ideals
> talking about here, i.e Cvsup, etc).
>
> Thanks in advance
>
>
>


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