[M3devel] SVN migration, also promotion

[Olaf Wagner]

Quoting Dragiša Durić <dragisha at m3w.org>:

> If criticism produces "you don't realize how much we work" then it
> would be best for me to stop writing about this and keep it quiet and
> happy?

There is some misunderstanding here. I didn't want to point out how
much we have worked, but how much effort any such change as replacing
the underlying version control system will involve.

>> I'm a bit tired of these discussions, as I don't think they help
>> the project on. What is needed is concrete work on documentation
>> and infrastructure. I'd also doubt that switching to SVN would
>> bring about a group of motivated and competent contributors
>> who have just been waiting for the CM3 folks to change their
>> version control to participate in the development of Modula-3.
>
> I can understand you, as someone from SCM company, are a bit touchy on
> these topics. What I say, as a longtime OSS user/follower and sometimes
> contributor, is - Modula-3 train is pretty hard one to jump on.

I'll grant you that, but as others have pointed out, this is
rather due to the completely different roots of the project.
We'll need to work on it to make CM3 more user-friendly of course.

>> If there really is the wish within the community to switch from
>> CVS to SVN, then those interested should build a team, investigate
>> the impacts and propose a migration plan. Elego and me for one
>> would need new server setup, the actual repository migration (which
>> should preserve as much information as possible), setup of repository
>> replication to two machines, integration of SVN into the regression
>> test framework, setup of SVN clients, update / rewrite of all the
>> repository access information and CM guidelines, and a migration
>> strategy for all the existing HTTP links in search engines etc.
>>
>> If I should make an estimation for this project in a commercial
>> environment, I'd say it will take 3-6 months and cost a client
>> between 40,000 and 80,000 Euros (that's currently 60,000 to 120,000$).
>
>   Next time your company gets such job, outsource it to mine - I'll do
> it for half that money and 1/6 the time :).

If you can really do these projects in 1/6th of our time, we will
surely be interested in working with you :-) You should not underestimate
the time needed for system analysis, meetings, convincing people and
writing documents though ;-) The technical aspects are often marginal
compared to the human factor. (Where exactly are you located? Would
you be willing to travel? :-))

>> I'd rather invest these efforts for other goals. If other CM3 users
>> think it is worthwhile to do, they should just do it; after all, this
>> is an open source project. No tool will be able to bring about more
>> organized development of CM3 simply by its use though. It needs
>> willing and competent humans to do this.
>
> It also can be done other way. As SVN from CVS can be done
> incrementally, we can make a sync-only SVN repo so locally installed
> trac can browse/link CM3's SVN. Voila.

This sounds like a good idea. Would you be willing to provide a
prototype setup for the read-only svn mirror?

> If I produced this trick in commercial environment, I would be hard
> pressed to charge it 5,000-10,000 EUR. Too bad nobody'll pay :).

Not for Modula-3 :-) If such a setup is really needed in an enterprise,
they'll certainly pay this price if they haven't got the knowledge to
do it on their own.

>> I should have used the time it took me to write this mail for working
>> on CM3 code and infrastructure.
>
>   I am sorry you are receiving this so hard. I think it would be really
> good idea to look a bit what other OSS people are doing and use some
> fresh ideas.

Of course you are right, it is always a good idea to look what others
are doing. And I'm not personally annoyed in any way; just a bit
bit tired, as I said.

So I hope I haven't quenched your enthusiasm and contributions,

Olaf
-- 
Olaf Wagner -- elego Software Solutions GmbH
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