[M3devel] Problems building CM3 from trunk.

[Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.]

Hi all:
I wonder how hard would be to evolve current JVM to Java jigsaw modularity system, it would be handy if not before we can support them, besides having such separate compilation support we could even re target the system easier than before, anyway it still lacks time, Java is through its process to do it, then other tools, static and dynamic I guess will need to be updated, ESC/Java, even before that if we may get somehow their main test suite would be wonderful to test whether we could support them and compare their results on their own ones. If that's the case we can give it a try to support them if really are interested in that.
Thanks in advance

--- El vie, 10/6/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es> escribió:

> De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Problems building CM3 from trunk.
> Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com, "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> Fecha: viernes, 10 de junio, 2011 14:46
> Hi all:
> and here it is (work in progress) in Modula-3 a JVM target
> compiler (maybe later another VM since UNSAFE is nop in JVM)
> to create another language (see for the later:
> http://xerxys.de/index.php?title=Discussion
> 
> ) :
> http://www.xerxys.org/index.php?title=Xm3
> 
> So the all dream about low level code in Modula-3 is nice,
> is just closer each time I guess.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised they even know the ARX OS, since
> there they coded everything in Modula-2+, so it's believable
> (more than SPIN) was (they always run in protected mode, so,
> I guess this would prove that safe codes needs not to live
> necessarily in kernel, though SPIN was, but to protect
> itself from others clients). Anyway, ARX coded even C
> runtime, so, it's not that surprising they did that yet it's
> wonderful.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- El vie, 10/6/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> escribió:
> 
> > De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Problems building CM3 from
> trunk.
> > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com,
> "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > Fecha: viernes, 10 de junio, 2011 10:42
> > Hi all:
> > besides, that the existence of linker, intermediate
> and low
> > level cross assemblers from 16032 to ARM and a low
> level
> > debugger in Acorn, though did live there until don't
> know
> > when (even a PC emulator written back circa 1986, 
> > available for their internal use).
> > Some information had appeared in some of the manuals,
> I
> > refer FYI one:
> > http://mdfs.net/Docs/Books/ARMCoPro/ARMAssem.rtf 
> > Similar to others that may be available
> > 
> > Ok, besides that, I would want to ask you please if
> you may
> > tell me whether m3cg currently generates private
> structures
> > or generated gcc compiler tree-lang or both of them,
> this is
> > because if the former or the later we then have a lot
> of
> > common with an UW-Milwaukee Professor John Boyland's
> PhD
> > thesis [1] (a copy is larger than the one of the below
> url,
> > by 134 pages, sorry there is not m3cg available man
> page):
> > 
> > http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Pubs/TechRpts/1996/CSD-96-916.pdf
> > 
> > Main difference I believe is that it targeted Oberon-2
> (and
> > doesn't generate M3CG µ-code), so it circumvents
> that, but
> > formalizes through a description layer, but given
> compiler
> > comparison available documentation in [2], we could be
> able
> > to re target it for Modula-3, in fact his thesis
> proposes it
> > (besides other Algol-derived languages plus another
> Module
> > implementing intermediate tree-lang to C backend). In
> fact
> > XDS Oberon-2/Modula-2 compiler that generates both
> target
> > machine and C language, and it's based on Modula-3
> compiler
> > (so it might generate M3CG if so), see:
> > http://wrapl.sourceforge.net/links.html#Programming_Languages
> > 
> > Yet another example of this Tycoon's TML which
> generates
> > C:
> > http://wwwmatthes.in.tum.de/file/Publications/1992/Math92/codegen.ps.gz
> > 
> > or indirectly through VM level (after the above, like
> > Boyland thesis):
> > http://wwwmatthes.in.tum.de/file/Publications/1994/GaMa94/paper.pdf
> > 
> > Yet before they tried Quest Cardelli's language
> machine and
> > adding some persistence capabilities (a functional
> language
> > stack based virtual machine):
> > http://wwwmatthes.in.tum.de/file/Publications/1991/Matt91/P-Quest-Manual.ps.gz
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks in advance
> > 
> > [1] J. T. Boyland, “Descriptional composition of
> compiler
> > components,” University of California, Berkeley,
> 1996.
> > 
> > [2]Computer abstracts. 1993. p152
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- El jue, 9/6/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.
> <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> > escribió:
> > 
> > > De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> > > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Problems building CM3 from
> > trunk.
> > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com,
> > "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > > Fecha: jueves, 9 de junio, 2011 11:04
> > > Hi all:
> > > it is that there is an actual compiler that
> using
> > Modula-3
> > > M3CG code generates C (why not may even C--) to
> object
> > code
> > > generation inside a Scale Java infrastructure
> and
> > mostly
> > > LGPL available (it makes type inference BTW). So
> the
> > wish of
> > > C is just out there :)
> > > Ok, perhaps it's good to think how to generate
> > additional
> > > target and have fun:
> > > http://www-ali.cs.umass.edu/Scale/images/dataflow.gif
> > > 
> > > Plusses are the optional optimization, inlining
> and
> > > debugging of C/C-- lcc, ldb, mld (NJMCTK) tool
> chain
> > > infrastructure.
> > > 
> > > ftp://ftp.cs.umass.edu/pub/techrept/techreport/1997/UM-CS-1997-058.ps
> > > 
> > > http://www.cs.tufts.edu/~nr/pubs/tk-usenix.html
> > > 
> > > I fell this sounds good for any given native JVM
> code
> > > generate and/or cross assembling in CM3 (perhaps
> the
> > hardest
> > > part?)
> > > 
> > > If you may please take a look, thanks in advance
> > > 
> > > --- El dom, 5/6/11, Daniel Alejandro Benavides
> D.
> > <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> > > escribió:
> > > 
> > > > De: Daniel Alejandro Benavides D. <dabenavidesd at yahoo.es>
> > > > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Problems building CM3
> from
> > > trunk.
> > > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com,
> > > "Hendrik Boom" <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > > > Fecha: domingo, 5 de junio, 2011 21:40
> > > > Hi all:
> > > > well I think we would need a good C hacker
> (very
> > > good), I
> > > > guess all experience is welcomed, perhaps is
> good
> > idea
> > > to
> > > > think in mobility I believe many others are
> > working
> > > towards
> > > > that, perhaps is time to us to do it.
> > > > 
> > > > http://www.mobily.com.sa/wps/portal/apps-award
> > > > 
> > > > Modula-3 web apps and custom browsers I
> think
> > idea is
> > > > recycled here, every word I heard about
> mobile
> > web is
> > > > client, client for that, ...
> > > > 
> > > > If so perhaps that's not good enough so we
> may
> > be
> > > start to
> > > > think what is better to start with, anyway I
> have
> > not
> > > heard
> > > > of something like mobile web development
> > environment
> > > and so
> > > > if they like idea why not? The biggest
> effort
> > would be
> > > in
> > > > Arabic characters, I guess would need to fix
> that
> > part
> > > of
> > > > current WIDECHAR libraries again not in
> m3core,
> > > fortunately
> > > > there is a lady who worked in DEC SRC and
> > Professor in
> > > an
> > > > University who worked with BIll Kalsow,
> she's
> > expert
> > > in
> > > > arabic language (see:
> > > > http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/3504134.Violetta_Cavalli_Sforza
> > > > ), it might that she can give us some help
> or a
> > clue
> > > for
> > > > interfaces. This idea is not bad at all
> since
> > you
> > > surely
> > > > know that internet has support now for that
> kind
> > of
> > > url, we
> > > > may have a hand on it. I have some indian
> friends
> > as
> > > well,
> > > > hopefully they may get some interest if so.
> My
> > feeling
> > > is
> > > > that they sort of like the language.
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks in advance for all your comments on
> that
> > > > 
> > > > --- El dom, 5/6/11, Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > > > escribió:
> > > > 
> > > > > De: Hendrik Boom <hendrik at topoi.pooq.com>
> > > > > Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Problems building
> CM3
> > from
> > > > trunk.
> > > > > Para: m3devel at elegosoft.com
> > > > > Fecha: domingo, 5 de junio, 2011 17:01
> > > > > On Sun, Jun 05, 2011 at 07:23:38PM
> > > > > +0100, Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.
> wrote:
> > > > > > Hi all:
> > > > > > Yes, it would be nice, but you
> would
> > need
> > > to
> > > > > understand that we don't want the RT
> to
> > depend
> > > on
> > > > specific
> > > > > implementations, but to be portable
> really
> > and
> > > truly,
> > > > having
> > > > > C underneath makes just another thing
> makes
> > us
> > > to
> > > > depend on
> > > > > C RT (that is less likely to be the
> best
> > idea),
> > > > instead of
> > > > > that, a clean low level but truly
> > independent
> > > platform
> > > > low
> > > > > level C-- is good to start with, you
> might
> > see
> > > > another
> > > > > implementation of this idea in
> portable
> > Cedar
> > > > (Modula-3 was
> > > > > ported to it), just that their idea was
> to
> > make
> > > this
> > > > even
> > > > > further to interact with that language,
> us
> > here
> > > just
> > > > need
> > > > > the portable low level interfaces same
> way
> > (I
> > > don't
> > > > deny
> > > > > Modula-3 C runtime, but making it safe
> > ideally
> > > is
> > > > C--),
> > > > > something I don't know it's quite
> platform
> > > dependent
> > > > in
> > > > > inner C currently if I may say so (who
> can
> > say
> > > that
> > > > BTW).
> > > > > Even SPIN did  transfered their
> ideal
> > C
> > > idiom to
> > > > SPIN
> > > > > Modula-3 (just what it missed, later
> did the
> > same
> > > in
> > > > a
> > > > > distributed JVM an nowadays I think in
> C#)
> > > > > 
> > > > > C-- is my favourite object code
> language,
> > but it
> > > > lacks
> > > > > support.  As far as I know, 
> > > > > it has a code generator for the 32-bit
> x86
> > > processoe
> > > > and
> > > > > that's about it.  Several 
> > > > > others have been mentioned as being
> nearly
> > ready,
> > > but
> > > > that
> > > > > isn't really good enough.  
> > > > > There hasn't been much activity on the
> C--
> > > newsgroup
> > > > on
> > > > > gmane.  THe project looks 
> > > > > moribund.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I think it would be worth breathing
> life
> > into the
> > > C--
> > > > > project, but I'm really not 
> > > > > sure how to do it.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It would probably be a lot of work.
> > > > > 
> > > > > --  hendrik
> > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>