[M3devel] Subject: Re: Fw: Modula-3 questions

[Daniel Alejandro Benavides D.]

Hi all:
nice idea, but it didn't work earlier, what should I work on something that  anybody can do by their-selves, one of the most interesting things of learning a new language environment, is that to certain degree you are a baby in that world if you dare, that's how I feel about Modula-3, I cannot guarantee that because as Greg Nelson said, "Modula-3 definition will perpetually incomplete" and computationally he was right but depending on the tool used for doing that affirmation.
Thanks in advance

PS Now, imagine if they dare to define a model of software based on any language, but just if it were Modula-3 or any "real" language, the rest is just the same thing over and over again, projects that never deserve any mention.

--- El vie, 20/4/12, Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk> escribió:

> De: Mark Wickens <mark at wickensonline.co.uk>
> Asunto: Re: [M3devel] Subject: Re:  Fw: Modula-3 questions
> Para: "m3devel at elegosoft.com" <m3devel at elegosoft.com>
> Fecha: viernes, 20 de abril, 2012 17:09
> Hi guys,
> 
> I've been following this conversation with interest. I'd
> like to offer my opinion, although I'm not sure I'm
> qualified that much to offer one. So please humour me ;)
> 
> I've been a contract and permanent software engineer for
> over a decade now. Although it is said that you should learn
> a new language every year, I'm guessing the definition of
> the word 'learn' depends on the amount of time and
> intellectual power you can apply. In my case, and I'm not
> sure I can completely use this as an excuse, I have small
> children so the amount of time I've got to do anything is
> limited.
> 
> I recognise there are limitations to any language, and Java
> has quite a few. Some say it has become the COBOL of the
> modern age. From my perspective, whilst there may be
> limitations, when I have a generic software problem to solve
> (and always in a hurry) it's very difficult to justify
> invest the time and effort to explore alternatives. Having
> said that, during Retrochallenge I've managed to code in
> both C, Pascal and VAX Macro (VAX/VMS languages). I did plan
> to spend a month coding Modula-3. This is still on the cards
> for a future competition. 
> 
> I find it very difficult to categorise programming languages
> in terms of interest. Clearly languages like C, C++, Java,
> .NET etc. with their commercial heritage are taught at
> University to provide students with a foot through the door
> to finding their first job. I ought to qualify that I'm
> thinking here of general purpose languages rather than
> domain-specific languages, such as PHP.
> 
> Other languages such as Scala and Erlang are designed to try
> and progress the ease with which multi-process/thread
> applications can be developed. Other more domain-specific
> languages such as Ruby are attempting to solve web-centric
> problems...
> 
> Interestingly I searched for 'programming languages hot' in
> google and one of the languages listed in the Infoworld
> article http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/7-programming-languages-the-rise-620?page=0,3
> was COBOL, but this is primarily listed because of
> commercial interests. Searching job adverts for programming
> languages definitely won't get you the full picture.
> 
> So then we have languages for academic or personal interest.
> So where do we think that Modula-3 fits into this picture?
> One thing is for sure, it's not considered a 'hot' language,
> so I don't think you'll find many Universities teaching it
> now we're into 2010+ (please, please correct me if I'm
> wrong). 
> 
> To a certain extent the participants on this list are skewed
> - I would imagine you could work on the Modula-3 compiler
> given enough architecture knowledge without necessarily
> having a huge amount of Modula-3 development experience. So
> could development on the compiler be sold as a way of
> gaining concrete skills in compiler development (IIRC it's
> all developed in C)?
> 
> Then there are people who have developed projects in
> Modula-3 and found it a nice/useful/productive language to
> develop with. Having invested time in the language it would
> make sense to use the language.
> 
> So an alternative way of promoting the language would be to
> publish applications on the internet. 
> I haven't searched for this, but I suspect that there aren't
> many recent articles.
> 
> I have lots of other thoughts about the matter, but would
> welcome comments...
> 
> Regards, Mark.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 20 Apr 2012, at 16:12, microcode at zoho.com
> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri Apr 20 14:47:49 2012 rodney_bates at lcwb.coop
> wrote
> > 
> >> On 04/20/2012 04:12 AM, microcode at zoho.com
> wrote:
> >>> I haven't found that book or any Modula-3 books
> online.
> >>> 
> >>> I agree that things are often best left alone
> and often ruined by
> >>> constant change and people who want to make
> things into other things
> >>> they were never intended to be. I said
> something similar a few debates
> >>> ago. I don't care what's popular as long as it
> still exists :-)
> >               
>                
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > 
> >> "As long as it still exists" is the critical
> connection to popularity
> >> here.  It takes a certain minimum of
> interested people to keep it in
> >> existence.  Despite being dramatically simpler
> than the alternatives,
> >> Modula-3 is still big enough that it needs several
> people to support it.
> >> We are really a bit low on this front.
> > 
> > I don't know what's involved but I don't think I can be
> much help with
> > coding, unfortunately. I have offered to help out with
> systems support in
> > the past and the offer still stands. I can host a
> couple of development
> > systems for Solaris 10 SPARC and Intel on an
> as-requested basis if
> > developers need them to keep CM3 going. I believe those
> platforms are
> > already supported so I don't think I'm helping much
> here either but just in
> > case.
> > 
> > 
> >> I can't seem to do the Modula-3 support I would
> like to do *and* use the
> >> language for my own projects too.  And I'm
> retired.  Frustrating. 
> > 
> > Sounds like good problems to have. I will try to
> install CM3 on Solaris in
> > the next few weeks. I had it on Linux but my install
> didn't seem like it
> > was working since most of the examples got errors
> trying to build. I'm also
> > busy with work and home stuff blah blah blah. I have a
> lot of things going
> > on and I don't get to most of what I would like to
> either. I feel your
> > pain ;-)
> > 
> > 
> > 
>